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#258681 - 12/16/00 08:32 AM Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

With winter setting in, I definitely realize how much I hate ABS brakes. I'm certainly not the only one. However, I know that they helped save my butt (and my bumper) a couple of times. But like I said in an earlier post, I have P265 winter tires, which is too wide. As a result, whenever there's deep snow (or worse yet, ice!!), ABS kicks in the minute I step on the brake pedal. It's very annoying.

Also, I've only had ABS since february 1998 when I bought my Pathfinder. I have to say that the Toyota system is quite a bit more subtle. But I drove 7 years without it and frankly, it is sometimes better to pump the brake pedal to get the «lock-unlock» combination manually to effectively come to a stop. There were times when I had to resort to the parking brake to stop the Pathfinder, and the Runner promises to be even worse...

So, I've been wanting for a while to build a switch that I would connect to the ABS fuse to have the freedom to turn it off manually if and when I want to. Has anybody done that? Is there another key component of the car connected to the ABS fuse that shouldn't be turned off? Does anybody know how to do such a mod?

Some of you will probably tell me that I shouldn't do that and that ABS brakes are there for my own safety, but I narrowly escaped a few accidents because of them. They would also be on 98% of the time, but in some snowy conditions, the snow packed in the tread of the tires is more effective if the tires will lock and act as a plow than if they're not allowed to.

So, if the wizards of 4Runner mods on this board wnat to help me, I'll gladly make a full report on the subject!

------------------
Hugo Lafrenière
'99 SR5 V6 5sp

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#258682 - 12/16/00 09:25 AM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Pull the fuse.
That is the easiest way to defeat ABS , when you want ABS put the fuse back in .
Thats what I have done with my race car.
Works well , cheap and simple.

Robert VanLane
Aomori Japan

PS When you pull or replace the fuse, always stop the car first. The CPU has to reset it self.

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#258683 - 12/17/00 12:53 AM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
little_joe Offline
Former Admin
Registered: 01/01/00
Posts: 10859
Loc: Holly Springs, North Cackalack...
Hugo, vehicle electronics are akin to the Sanskrit language to me. But FWIW the ABS sensor is conveniently located on top of the rear differential, with the wiring running up the frame rail.

I suggest this as a way to splice into the wiring and add a switch to control the current. I don't know how to do it, I'm just suggesting this since pulling a fuse doesn't seem to be the solution you're seeking. Perhaps someone will have something better to offer......

------------------
Joe Micciche
[email protected]

'94 Toyota SR5 V6 Xcab, 33" MT's, locked and dented.

_________________________
4x4Wire's Toyota Section 1995 FZJ80 LandCruiser - 3 locking diffs, +200k mi, JD HIR's, 285/75R16 Nitto TG's Olde North State Cruisers
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#258684 - 12/16/00 03:40 PM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

quote:
Originally posted by Roger:
Just wait..you say your ABS kicks in with winter tires? I have not had my ABS kick in once this winter with the winter tires. it's not the 265 that's too wide or whatever..it's your tires...or you were going too fast for any size tire!


Well Roger, did you have any real snow this year? If you're from Canada (where, by the way?), you probably have. Anyway, even if I'm not going fast, I don't have to hit the brakes hard for the ABS to kick in. On packed snow, it's okay I guess, but on «loose», fresh snow, and especially if it's like 3 or more inches deep, forget it : non-stop ABS. You're running Winter Duelers right? And for summer : size and brand?

Thanks for the input guys. I was actually thinking of inserting two wires, one in the socket for each «end» of the fuse, and connect that to a switch. Would it work? Dunno...

------------------
Hugo Lafrenière
'99 SR5 V6 5sp

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#258685 - 12/16/00 03:42 PM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Okay Hugo, I just wrestled with the same question--while doing the wiring for the upcoming electric locker, I had the option of making an ABS defeat switch. FYI, the ABS has several modes: While in 4wd, it follows a different braking pattern. There is also a deceleration sensor (that is active in 4wd), so that it can tell whether or not the vehicle is on a slick surface (if the ABS is activating and the vehicle is not slowing down, it slows the pulsating action so that the wheels will remain locked for longer periods of time). Are you in 4wd when you are having probs with the ABS?
That would be first recommendation if you are unhappy with the ABS--try seeing how it does with 4wd active.
I think there are a couple of ways to defeat the ABS with a switch. If you have the rear electric locking differential, there should be a really easy way. (Mine unfortunately did not come with the rear diff lock, so the ABS ECU is a different part number--which apparently doesn't deactivate when wired to the proper pin). If you have the diff lock, disabling the ABS involves splicing into a wire running into the ABS ECU (located behind panel in passenger footwell) and feeding it 12V--this is the same circuit that the rear diff lock switch activates to disable ABS while locked. If you want to do this, let me know and I'll go look up the specifics in my wiring diagram.

------------------
Paul
99 4Runner SR5 4wd
5-speed
Electric Rear Locker Retrofit in Progress

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#258686 - 12/16/00 04:48 PM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

quote:
Originally posted by RobJapan1:
PS When you pull or replace the fuse, always stop the car first. The CPU has to reset it self.

Thanks Robert! When you say «stop the car», I'm assuming you mean turn it off completely right?

------------------
Hugo Lafrenière
'99 SR5 V6 5sp

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#258687 - 12/16/00 10:06 PM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Yes that`s right.
When the car is turned on , it checks the ABS, and if it is off, the light will show on the dash.

If you don`t believe me , it is real simple to test out.

Robert VanLane

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#258688 - 12/17/00 03:43 AM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Jeff the marmot Offline

Roll Me Over
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 4688
Loc: Thornton, Colorado
PaulC -- that's a great explanation for this.

I looked into disabling the ABS a while back but I'm still in the daydreaming mode for this mod. After ABS engages in 2WD mode, I don't like how sensitive it is -- it doesn't want to get out of modulating the brakes whether it should continue to or not. I think this can easily extend the braking distance while on-road. It seems that if I momentarily let off the brakes and then get on the brakes again, that I can stop ABS from modulating and ultimately stop sooner. However, I'm quite happy with the ABS performance so far while in 4WD.

IMHO, as with many vehicle makes, the hazard light location is a stupid location for a button that's so rarely used and yet in the most prominent location on the dash. Ideally, I'd like to rewire the hazard light switch to a new switch somewhere else, and then use that pushbutton switch for a panic ABS disable button. Like Paul said, since I have the electric locker, any custom ABS disabling circuitry should utilize the wire that goes to the ABS ECU to gracefully disable the ABS anytime the 4Runner is on or even moving.

There's a yellow with blue stripe wire that comes from the rear diff locker detection sensor and Y's off to a few places, including the diff lock light on the dash and then the ABS ECU input EXI2 (also labelled 4 - pin 4 maybe?). This is what Paul says needs 12V applied to it. So can we wire this thing so that it maintains the existing functionality, plus you simply drop 12V to that side of the sensor via a switch? I think so, but I want to review the wiring more before I just go for it.

I was originally thinking I'd add a switch and/or relay in-line with the ABS actuator fuse, but it's rated at 60 amps. I realize there's a huge safety factor in there, but still it would be hard to find anything rated for 60A. I've looked over the factory service manual for this and seen that there's 3 additional 10A fuses that go to various portions of the ABS system and each of these still terminates at the ABS ECU so it knows when all's well or if there's a power problem. Those 3 other fuses include lots of other things, such as dash lights, and power to many non-ABS items, so they all need to keep power to them.

I know people in a variety of other vehicles just remove the ABS actuator fuse when the engine is turned off. Then to re-enable it, they replace the fuse when the engine's off, restart the engine and ABS works again. But I would love to enable/disable it at any time from inside.
Hope this helps someone to take this to the next step. I'll probably get to it eventually.
Jeff

_________________________
Jeff 2000 4Runner SR5, supercharger, rear e-locker, ARB front locker, 285/75R16 MT/R's, custom bumpers & skids 2007 Tacoma double cab 4x4 - stock
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#258689 - 12/17/00 05:32 AM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Even if you have a switch ,you still have to turn the car off and start it up again for the ABS to turn on or off.

Robert VanLane

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#258690 - 12/17/00 05:44 AM Re: Is there any way to disable ABS?
Anonymous
Unregistered

This is some of the info I collected from the rally list I belong to.


1)
A defeat switch simply interrupts a signal (circuit) somewhere in the ABS's
electronics. As Ivan pointed out, you may be able to remove the fuse (or
relay). On my car (a 91 Eagle Talon (same as Mitsubishi Eclipse)) an 80
amp fuse protects the main circuit and it is bolted in place. It did not
seem practical to remove this fuse each time I wanted to defeat my ABS.

After a little searching, I found a pair of little wires (18 gauge) that
lead into the HCU. I snipped a wire and connected a wire to each loose
end. My two wires lead to a switch on the dash. By opening the circuit
(flip of the switch) the ABS detects a fault and disables itself. The only
problem with this is that the system can only be reactivated by cycling the
key from off to on again. Simply flipping the defeat switch back to the ON
position does not restore the ABS.

2)
I have not removed it, but I have installed a defeat switch. There are
some cases where I do want ABS functioning (wet pavement, for example).

Completely removing the ABS from your vehicle can be done and it can
simplify your brake system. Just be prepared to do a lot of tube routing
(bending, flaring, etc.). Most vehicles that do have ABS tend to have
rather complex routing to begin with. Make sure you look at this carefully
before you undertake such a task. Also keep in mind that your brake system
is one of your most important safety features (just like your helmet and
harnesses). DO NOT take on a job like this without fully understanding
this.


I hope this helps somebody.

Robert VanLane
Aomori Japan

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