StockRaider
Roll Me Over
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 4380
Loc: Williamsport PA
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I have been having more than my share of problems over the past year or so with starters on my Raider. I replaced the one starter with the gear wouldn't push out to engage the flywheel. So this starter has literally 50 miles on it if its lucky. I replaced the main power wire to the starter recently as well as the remote wire that hooks to the solenoid. It seems to start fine, but then sometimes it will just click click click. I took it for a drive today, stopped at a carwash, cleaned a falls worth of sap off the hood and roof. Got in held my breath and she turned over no problem. I stop to get gas, $45 later I goto turn the key and it just clicks from the dash and the solenoid. I tried it about a dozen times, flag someone down to give me a jump thinking my Optima was dead (which I sat on the charger last night for 12 hours). Before he could hook the cables up, I turn the key 1 last time and she cranks and fires like nothing in the world is wrong. Before that, the other day I went to start it and I was getting a weird popping noise from the glove box, and the dash went dark. About 2 minutes later with the key off I tried again and the lights came back on and she started.  I am a bit confused by all of this, and I would like to figure it out before I send my Outback to the paint shop.
Thanks
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Richard E
1989 Montero - SR coils, SR steering box, 31" Wide track Baja
1989 V6 Auto Raider - SR Rear, LSD Front, Superwinch Hubs, 33" BFG Mud terrain KM2
1987 Mitsubishi Starion 2.6turbo Start of my tuner addiction
1983 Honda XL600R - Supertrapp muffler, EBC Brakes, K270tires
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4ePikanini
Mudrunner
Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 435
Loc: South Africa
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the relay in the dash might be clicking but not sending good current through.
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Karma's Law - For every action there is a multiplied reaction!
93 Pajero GLS 3.0 V6 LWB - SOLD
2001 Gen3 Di-D LWB - SOLD
2005 Touareg R5 2.5 TDi
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FrankR
Web Wheeler
Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 10225
Loc: Columbia, SC
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Clean your battery connections and make sure they're tight. Then clean the ground strap connections to the frame, inner fender and engine block (both sides).
If that doesn't work, check the ignition switch circuit and consider replacing the pigtail portion of the ignition switch (behind the lock cylinder).
If that doesn't work, install an extra relay into the ignition circuit.... triggered by the ignition switch lead that is now connected to the starter solenoid switch..... that will throw battery voltage directly to the starter solenoid switch.
Frank
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'89 G-Raider Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 155k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, 165A alt., Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
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4ePikanini
Mudrunner
Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 435
Loc: South Africa
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jip. I agree with Frank. Put the relay in.
By the sound of it you know how the atrter works but just to be safe check here
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat.p...;gonew=1#UNREAD
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Karma's Law - For every action there is a multiplied reaction!
93 Pajero GLS 3.0 V6 LWB - SOLD
2001 Gen3 Di-D LWB - SOLD
2005 Touareg R5 2.5 TDi
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12747
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I'm with Frank. The signs point to corrosion on the battery terminals. Not enough juice is getting through to turn the starter, but enough is to actuate the solenoid. Clean the terminals. If it fails on the way to the auto parts to get the cleaner brush, whack the terminals with a hammer to sort of make a better connection. While you are at the auto parts, buy a pair of the anti corrosion felt washers to put over the battery posts under the terminals.
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"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 6033
Loc: No where in particular
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It also never hurts to check the voltage drops across the ignition switch. The contacts can get dirty and cause all kinds of issues.
Kevin
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87 Dodge
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StockRaider
Roll Me Over
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 4380
Loc: Williamsport PA
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the switch pigtails checked out fine, I checked voltage to the solenoid and its reading 11.4-11.6v. I bought a replacement starter relay, but cannot locate it in the car itself? I tried to start it again today and it made the noise under the dash and the whole dash went dark again.
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Richard E
1989 Montero - SR coils, SR steering box, 31" Wide track Baja
1989 V6 Auto Raider - SR Rear, LSD Front, Superwinch Hubs, 33" BFG Mud terrain KM2
1987 Mitsubishi Starion 2.6turbo Start of my tuner addiction
1983 Honda XL600R - Supertrapp muffler, EBC Brakes, K270tires
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12747
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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The truck has no starter relay. Did you clean the battery terminals yet?
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"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."
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StockRaider
Roll Me Over
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 4380
Loc: Williamsport PA
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I cleaned the terminals. Odd... no relay? What did they order me from Advance?  I have a feeling since the truck sat outside during the snow storm the windshield might of leaked onto the ECU at this point. 
Would the ECU getting wet show symptoms like this? with the noise coming from the glove box and all electronics going dead?
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Richard E
1989 Montero - SR coils, SR steering box, 31" Wide track Baja
1989 V6 Auto Raider - SR Rear, LSD Front, Superwinch Hubs, 33" BFG Mud terrain KM2
1987 Mitsubishi Starion 2.6turbo Start of my tuner addiction
1983 Honda XL600R - Supertrapp muffler, EBC Brakes, K270tires
Edited by StockRaider (03/01/10 11:28 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12747
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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When you cleaned the terminals, did you clean the post and the wire terminal? Did you clean the "other wire" on the positive post connections, including the connections for the fusible links?
The ecu does not control the starter in any way.
Starter basics: The starter gets power straight from the battery via the fat wire on the positive battery terminal, which is hot at all times at the starter connector. The starter solenoid is a two function device. It extends the starter motor gear into mesh with the teeth on the flywheel, and only after they are meshed, acts as a relay to connect the heavy battery current to the starter motor. The solenoid is activated by the ign. switch via the small spade connector. Note two heavy studs on the forward end of the solenoid. The battery connects to the one furthest from the starter motor. The other one has a wire connected that goes into the starter motor and connects to the motor brushes. The two studs are electrically isolated. The solenoid core has a copper disc on the forward end. When the solenoid is activated by the ign. sw., the core moves forward, and engages the starter gear via a lever, At the end of the solenoid stroke, the copper disc on the end bridges the two heavy studs, making the connection from battery to starter motor, and the motor spins and turns over the engine. The starter circuit grounds back to the battery negative via the engine block thru the engine ground wire to the batt. -.
The sypmtoms you describe are very similar to a bad corrosion at the battery terminal connector, OR a bad ground path. The negative battery terminal goes first to the truck bodywork near the battery, then continues to the engine block. Clean both connection points well of crud and corrosion, both on the body/engine block side and the wire connector surface, and apply some dielectric grease. Clean the battery posts and connectors again. Clean the connection to the "other wire" on the positive battery connector that feeds the rest of the electrical system.
The clicking in the glovebox area you hear is the ecu control relay cycling. It is on in ign. start and on controlled by the ecu in ign run, off otherwise.
One further note. Remember the copper disc in the solenoid? It is subject to arcing every time the starter cycles on, and over time, the arc scars inhibit current flow, and the starter "fails". In most cases, the disc turns on the core, exposing new areas for contact, but given long enough, the whole contact area is scarred. Starter motors rarely fail, they just quit getting juice due to the solenoid disc scarring. This is why whacking a failing starter often makes the truck crank, as it wiggles stuff enough to turn the disc to a usable place or dislodges arc scarring.
To test a starter, look here.
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"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."
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