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Big Blue
Roll Me Over


Reged: 12/06/00
Posts: 2967
Loc: Brier,Wa,USA
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: FrankR]
      #545297 - 06/22/04 10:23 PM

Yes it does. I went to longer bolts for the A-Arms to allow for more shims and still allow for full contact with the fasteners. I use only Factory shims, and have ~8mm on the drivers side and ~9mm on the passenger side.
I think what you are seeing is just the difference in manufacturering tolerances, because of the caster setting readings.
I/we just did an alignment on a lifted Isuzu with 35's (our own MLClark's) and to get it "close" on the camber setting, we removed ALL shims. That made the camber -.6* and still allowed for reasonable caster, but to get the camber correct the machine still wanted us to remove as much as 1/2" of shim that just isn't there. The joys of lifted/custom A-Arm'ed/dropped diff rigs. It still drove good but when we put it on the machine the camber was so negitive, that the alignment heads couldn't see each other
Kary

--------------------
1987 Mitsubishi Pajero "Modified"
The other original Mitsu brother
Northwest Trailmaster


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FrankR
Web Wheeler


Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 10224
Loc: Columbia, SC
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: Big Blue]
      #545308 - 06/22/04 10:38 PM

Quote:

I think what you are seeing is just the difference in manufacturering tolerances, because of the caster setting readings.





Maybe, but I've seen others post here (DougB comes to mind) that they also have 2 x 2mm on the left and 1 x 2mm on the right and the FSM gives those as standard as well - so I think the tolerances are pretty tight.

Anyway, with 2.5" of t-bar crank I'm operating pretty close to the droop limit and I notice that the camber change with movement is fairly pronounced so I hope the tires will wear ok. Considering the geometry at this much crank, a zero camber set makes a lot of sense to control tire edge wear.

I think I'll turn in a little more D/S caster, take out a shim on each side, load the rear with a "normal" everyday load - then take it back to the alignment shop and have him call the camber readings to me while I adjust the t-bars until I get it where I want it. I guess the question is whether I should put 225 lbs. in the driver seat while I'm adjusting it. Now that I think of it, there's a mechanic there just about my size.

Thanks again,
Frank

--------------------
'89 G-Raider Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 155k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, 165A alt., Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum

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FrankR
Web Wheeler


Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 10224
Loc: Columbia, SC
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: FrankR]
      #545313 - 06/22/04 10:49 PM

Quote:

So - I'll remove one shim from each side and relieve a little t-bar crank to get it slightly positive. No problemo. In combination with a toolbox in the rear it should straighten right up level and be good to go.




Wooops.... back to school...... gotta go the other way for positive. By gosh, now I think I've got it! Since I'm now an ex-spurt, tomorrow I might as well go in the alignment bidness.

Frank

--------------------
'89 G-Raider Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 155k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, 165A alt., Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum

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Big Blue
Roll Me Over


Reged: 12/06/00
Posts: 2967
Loc: Brier,Wa,USA
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: FrankR]
      #545378 - 06/23/04 12:38 AM

You "were" right the first time. Remove them (shims) to bring it (camber) positive. The shim is between the cross-link, and the frame, and the cross-link is inside of the frame.
Kary

--------------------
1987 Mitsubishi Pajero "Modified"
The other original Mitsu brother
Northwest Trailmaster


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FrankR
Web Wheeler


Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 10224
Loc: Columbia, SC
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: Big Blue]
      #545474 - 06/23/04 08:57 AM

Quote:

You "were" right the first time. Remove them (shims) to bring it (camber) positive. The shim is between the cross-link, and the frame, and the cross-link is inside of the frame.





Yes, I know..... it was which way I would need to go with the t-bars to fine-tune the camber that was confusing me after a couple of brandies. Now that the sun has come up I've decided that to get it right I'll definitely need to put some weight in the driver's seat. Now I'm wondering what the aerodynamics do to the front-end at highway speed. Probably with the cross-section profile and in combination with extra height there's a slight lift - which should make the front move toward positive negative. And - braking would make it go positive. So, the combination should (over time) even out tire wear. I'll definitely take your original advice and set it up at zero "as driven".

Don't mean to pick it to death, but there is a reason for tire wear and usually a way to resolve it - provided you can "see" what's happening. Wish I had a home alignment kit.

Frank

--------------------
'89 G-Raider Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 155k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, 165A alt., Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum

Edited by FrankR (06/23/04 09:23 AM)


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fasteddy
Web Wheeler


Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12703
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: FrankR]
      #545562 - 06/23/04 12:27 PM

I, too keep thinking about getting a clamp on caster/camber gauge and a set of trammel points on a graduated rod for toe, but then I think, I don't have a single place that I know is LEVEL to start measuring from...

--------------------
"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."


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FrankR
Web Wheeler


Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 10224
Loc: Columbia, SC
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: fasteddy]
      #545577 - 06/23/04 12:49 PM

Mark a spot on the floor that corresponds to the center of each tire's contact patch. Put down 12" vinyl tiles stacked to level and drive right on! Voila..

Frank

--------------------
'89 G-Raider Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 155k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, 165A alt., Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum

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fasteddy
Web Wheeler


Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12703
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: FrankR]
      #545723 - 06/23/04 05:21 PM

I can't afford that many tiles - would have to build a ramp of tiles to climb on. Still going thru no-garage witdrawal...

Also never seen caster/camber gauge that I thought was worth the jack. Probably do better with protractor and plumb bob. Hmmmm, wonder if you could use one of those digital angle meters and some rusty trig....

--------------------
"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."


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FrankR
Web Wheeler


Reged: 02/01/04
Posts: 10224
Loc: Columbia, SC
Re: Gen1 Alignment Specs [Re: fasteddy]
      #545757 - 06/23/04 06:44 PM

Well, the nice thing about our trucks is that once you've got caster and camber correct you can leave it pretty much alone except for toe adjustment - that is if you don't crash or change anything. Not changing things might be a bit much to ask, though. Anyway, toe-in is fairly easy to get by eye. I set mine that way without even using a tape measure and tried for 3/16"... when they put it on the machine it said 1/4".... not bad for horse shoes and hand grenades. It actually felt and drove better (like on rails) better than with the 1/8" setting now, but I suppose it might have created a little wear problem at a 1/4".

Frank

--------------------
'89 G-Raider Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 155k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, 165A alt., Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum

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