azrain
Emeritus Staffer and Moderator
Reged: 10/25/02
Posts: 4482
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
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A great deal of posting in the Toyota 4Runner & SUV forum has to do with tire choice. In most circumstances, the tires are the first part of an SUV that is exchanged for an OEM alternative.
In this thread, we will discuss the different set-ups by our membership and provide a place for a collective experience with many different configurations of late model SUV's.
Following is the example (using my 4Runner):
1998 4Runner
SAW / ATS / Downey / Bilstein suspension
Lifted 2.0"
V6 / 5spd / 4.10 / rear air locker
Stock 16X7 alloy wheels
285/75/16LT Goodyear MT/R Radial Tires @ 36PSI X 4 (street), 13PSI X 4 (off road)
Fitment Problems: Insignificantly rubs rear lower corner of front fenderwell in high speed / slight turn desert running or similar street situation.
Wheels: No issues, stock rims on this configuration clear all.
On Road: Good to Fair handling, some growling around corners, loud (but only slightly more than BFG A/T TA's by opinion), highway noise is moderate to high, fair high speed (75 mph) handling, acceptable wear for type of tire (65% of tread remaining at 12,000 mi. plus.)
Off Road: Excellent overall tire off road, at lower pressures conforms to rock surfaces uniformly, sidewalls have no deep cuts or pinches, minimal chunking on tread, bead has stayed intact, no significant mud testing.
Overall: For a true all / dual purpose, this one is a trade-off. You will give up high speed highway performance. Like any purpose built off-road tire, this one squirms like a prom date on the pavement but shines off-road and hasn't let me down despite a framing nail piercing one of the rear treads and being broken off in the tire for at least 2k mi.!!!! Recommended for anyone who will see 20 to 50 % off-road use.
So, there should be some guidelines for this thread:
1. Try to describe the configuration as closely to the example as possible.
2. Use opinions formed on your setup in the Fitment through Overall comments, stick to fact on the actual configuration.
3. Have fun, no flaming allowed, try to keep questions to PM's and Email.
4. Refer future questions to this FAQ when possible.
This thread will be stuck to the top and closely moderated.
Enjoy!
Mike
EDIT
Suspension recently changed to:
OME 881 spring and N91S shock (front) with one 10MM trim packer installed in the assembly and one Revtek top-out spacer.
OME 891 and N86 shock (rear.)
Minor rubbing on front pinch weld under heavy front loading. Otherwise no changes to above commentary.
Edited by azrain (11/17/04 10:25 PM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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2000 SR5 with LTD flares
SAW coilovers with revtek topout spacer and ATS arms - 2.5" lift
OME 890 coils and N86C shocks - 2.75" lift
1" body lift
V6, 4spd auto tranny
stock 16x7 alloys
285/75/R16 Dueler MTs (37 psi street, 18 psi trail), 25k driven miles
driving habits are about like this: 50% highway, 35% street, 15% trail.
no fitment issues b/c of ATS arms and 1" body lift.
STREET: I have been really impressed with the street characteristics of these MT tires. The noise level of the tires when I got them was similar to the noise level of my old BFG AT KOs. Granted, the noise has been increasing in the past 5k miles, but they are still barely heard at highway speeds. The wet traction has been fantastic, both at high speeds and low speeds.
TRAIL: these tires have been good. They are very good in the mud, they clean really well. On the rocks they have been okay, but the sidewalls are not very thick so that is their weak point. We dont get much snow in GA, so I cannot report on their performance in snow.
OVERALL: these are great tires for the weekend-warrior like myself. They hold up extremely well on the street and they are very competitive on the trail.
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Robinhood150
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 08/28/01
Posts: 1520
Loc: Wandering around Phoenix
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1993 4Runner
1.5in downey HD coils in rear/no lift in front, not even tbar crank. Stock length Rancho 9000s front and rear.
V6/Auto/factory 4.88
Stock aluminum wheels
32x11.5 Pirelli Scorpion ATs @32psi x4 (street) 10psi-17psi x4 (off road)
Fitment problems: insignificantly rubs when reversing and at full lock. No problems off road.
On road: Absolutely nothing to complain about. Noise is slightly higher than normal street tires, but my 2002 corolla has louder road noise (thanks unibody construction). Never hydroplaned (yet), will get at least 40k miles out of these tires.
Off road: Seems fine to me on the rocks and in the sand. They've taken me everywhere my practically stock truck wants to go.
Overall: good tire for anybody who doesn't want to spend the money for BFG ATs or step up to a mud tire. I'm graduating to muds, next.
--------------------
Steve
My Website ||Gettin' off 4wheel drive club member
'93 4Runner V6 4x4 auto tranny
If you have to ask about a SAS, you're not ready for it.
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Jeff the marmot
Trailriding Forum Moderator
Reged: 02/13/00
Posts: 4668
Loc: Thornton, Colorado
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2000 SR5 4Runner
V6 / auto / TRD supercharger / 4.88's (stock was 4.30) / plenty of heavy mods
stock rear e-locker / front ARB locker
SAW and Eibach front / OME 891 rear with N86 shocks and 1.5" Daystar spacer / 2.5" front and 3" rear lift
Still stock front upper control arms (which determines droop)
285/75R16 Goodyear MT/R on 16x8 "Ultra aluminum mod" wheels (look like A/R Outlaw II), 4.25" backspacing. Typically 35 psi highway, 13 psi hard trails, 11 psi ice racing. Used year-round on daily driver.
Fitment: Since stock backspacing was 4 3/8", I stuck with nearly the same b.s. but with 1" wider wheel so the tires stick out almost 1" farther. I got significant rubbing when steering was turned halfway before I did trimming/pounding. To fix this the body seam in the rear of the front wheel wells was hammered flat and the plastic over that seam was cut away. Now it's extremely rare that I get any rubbing. They fit into the rear wheel wells at full stuff but I bent all of the upper lip upward at a 45+ degree angle with a crescent wrench so they fit.
Wheels: I love the 4.25" backspacing and the 8" width. I don't like the "Ultra" brand wheels only because they don't have clearcoating on them. Their appearance after a couple years is poor due to corrosion. They've endured my abuse off-road very well and have multiple scrapes and even 2 dented areas now.
I also tried to fit some 16x8 steel wheels, but they wouldn't fit over the brake caliper. Some are said to fit, though.
Tires on road: Good handling. Minor squeeling in hard corners. Good hydroplaning resistance. First set lasted 45K miles. Somewhat soft rubber compound which is a perfect compromise. Quiet when new and get slightly louder as they wear - not bad though. Need rebalancing every 20K miles. Loss of a couple mpg on highway (also due to size). Max speed rating of 90 mph. Surprisingly good traction in all types of snow including hard packed - definitely better than all-seasons. Won season points trophy when ice racing with MT/R's on rough ice.
Tires Off Road: Very good performance on rocks. Very durable sidewall - only one puncture (my only flat) after 75K miles on MT/R's with a sharp pointed rock. Never took it off the bead despite many times I should have. No difference noticed when siped. No chunking. No real mud testing.
Overall: Perfect tire for a compromise between on-road and off-road when you want to take your daily driver on tough trails. It's not for you if you'll rarely go off-road -- too many compromises on-road. It's often used on dedicated trail rigs, although a softer compound might be nice for buggies.
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Jeff
2000 4Runner SR5, supercharger, rear e-locker, ARB front locker, 285/75R16 MT/R's, custom bumpers & skids
2007 Tacoma double cab 4x4 - stock
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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1995 4runner
15x8 rock crawler rims
32x11.5 pro comp Mud Terains
no issues with rubbing and i love these tires they wear very well on the street and handle awsome on the trails.
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JSharp
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/06/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Outside of Smalltown Illinois
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2000 4Runner SR5 with LTD style flares. Stock suspension, stock height.
265/75 X 16 Dunlop Dueler RT's on US Wheel #84 Daytona rims ( similar to the black Rockcrawlers ) 16" X 7" with 4.00" backspacing.
Some rubbing on the back of the front inner fenders at about 2/3 steering lock that's worse under braking. No rubbing in back even with the wheels stuffed.
I like this setup. Much better than the stock Goodyears in every way. Good in the snow and quiet on pavement for as agressive as they are. Seem to be wearing very well.
I'll probably get something less agressive and put them on my stock rims for summer highway use though.
Edited by JSharp (01/29/04 04:59 PM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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1991 Toyota Pickup
IFS
22RE
Lockrite rear
EZ Locker front
Marlin Crawler T-Case 4.7 Gears
Persson Idler arm
Budbuilt cross member with 1 1/2" tcase lift
2" Roger Brown Body Lift
Low profile bumpstops
Swaybar removed
1" removed from the rear fenders
15X8 Rockcrawler rims with 3.75 backspcing
33X12.50 Procomp MTs
I rub the front at full lock left or right on downhills only, nothing major but you can hear it.
I can't comment on street use because it is used for offroad use only
Jack
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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1995 4-Runner
3.0 V-6 Automatic Transmission 4x4
1" Bodylift from Mr. Brown
FZJ-80 Cruiser coils in the rear
No real front lift/slight torsion bar crank
33x12.5/15 MT/R's on 15x8 4" BS Eaton Steels
35 PSI on the road 10-12 wheeling on rocks 6 in deep snow
Low Profile Bumpstops and no swaybars
Fitment:
Inner fender liner was removed and replaced with rubber floor liner. Fender seam was ground flat and hammered. Rear frame rubbing is slight, but apparent at full compression. Otherwise tires stuff well.
Wheels:
Backspacing is key here. The wheels are darn heavy, but they take a beating. Part of the balance issues may be the wheels, but who can argue with $45 a piece without the pride stripe?
On-Road:
They have been an absolute bear to get and keep balanced for any period of time. I have lifetime balance and go in almost monthly to have it redone. Right now there is about 25k on the tires with only mildly noticeable wear. Decent growl with the windows down. So far I have been really impressed with them in snow and rain, way better than the BFG AT's they replaced. Put 13k on them this summer in 3 months, lots of highway time.
Off-Road:
Great tire on rocks at low pressure. Not a good mud tire with my anemic engine. Toasted one sidewall on basically a gravel road. Otherwise they do sick things on rocks with grabbing every last edge.
Overall:
Good tire for my purposes. Wheeled it hard this summer all over the southwest without issue and it still drives tolerably on the highway. Off-Road and on-road it is a compromise though. Not a great street tire and I think a Swamper would do a lot better in pure mud. It DD's decent, wheels great and looks cool even to people who have no idea.
Next tire purchase may get me away from them though. The price is a little steep for something that has had out of round issues. Either these or Krawlers go on next.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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1996 4Runner SR5 4x4
- 3.4L V6/auto/3.90 gears
- stock 15x7 alloys
- 32/11.5-15 Bridgestone Dueler ATs (not the Revos)
- OME HD shocks and coils front and rear
Background:
When the 225s that came on my truck wore out, I decided to upgrade to something larger and more aggressive. My truck is a daily driver that spends 90% of its time on pavement. I wanted a tire that looked good, performed well on road in all conditions (I live in the northeast, so that means rain, snow, slush, ice, etc.), performed well off-road, and would get good tread wear. I did a lot of research, and after reading a terrific review on off-road.com I decided to go with Bridgestone Dueler ATs. All I had left to do was decide on a size. I talked with a few people, and found out that an 11.5" wide tire is the widest I could fit without serious rubbing. I ended up using Wild Bill's rig as a model and went with 32/11.5-15 on my stock 15x7 alloys.
Fit and Rubbing
The tires fit great. They don't rub at all in the front, and only slightly in the back at full compression (definitely not enough to worry about). The tires fit well on the stock 15x7 alloys, and even aired down to 15PSI, I don't worry about their width or losing a bead.
Tire Performance - On Pavement
I couldn't be happier with these tires. They easily the best tires I've driven. Dry grip is very good, though I don't drive my truck like it's a race car. In the rain and slush, the tread design keeps rubber on the road - even in standing water I've never hydroplaned or lost traction. In the snow the tread is aggressive enough to maintian good traction. Obviously, I still drive carefully, but these tires make it much easier to get around. I've only ever gotten my truck stuck once, and it was in the snow. I was in about 15" of unpacked powder, and the tread tended to fill up with snow. I didn't know the snow was that deep, but once I got in there, I didn't expect to get it - it was that kind of snow. No tire without studs is going to do much in the ice, but these aren't bad. With a light foot and some caution, I can get around just fine, even in 2WD.
Tire Performance - On the Trail
I was am very impressed with these tires off-road as well. They even impressed a couple of guides at Paragon Adventure Park. If aired down properly they offer great traction on the rocks, wet or dry. In the mud, they do surprisingly well. I didn't think an AT would fare well in the mud, but these do all right. I've never been held back by my tires - to me, that's a sign of a good tire.
Conclusion
These tires may never win any off-road competitions, nor will they last longer than your truck. But, if you're looking for a good, all around tire that can handle lots of terrain and conditions, I cannot say enough about the Dueler ATs. I'm expecting to get between 55 and 60k miles out of my set, and they have seen a wide variety of terrain and driving condition. They are yet to disappoint me. I'd buy another set in a heartbeat, and I'd recommend them to friends and family without a second thought.
You can see pictures of the tires in action on my website, at http://128.226.93.56.
Edited by jacksonpt (02/16/04 08:20 AM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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1998 Limited 4x4
SAW Coilovers front 2.5"
OME 891 Firm coils and N86 Firm Shocks rear 2.75"
1" Body Lift
V6, 4 speed auto
American Racing AR23 16x8 4" Backspacing
285/75/16 Interco Trxus (28 psi street & 13 psi trail)
Driving habits now (It hardly ever gets driven)
I have no rubbing issues since I have installed the 1" body lift.
STREET: They act like my Goodyear MT/R's did. They are decent in the rain, snow, ect. They've begun to get louder as they wear, but I don't mind the noise.
TRAIL: Mud: Work like a champ. This is where they really shine. Rocks: The compound of the tire is very soft and sticky, so they do pretty well on the rocks also.
OVERALL: Great tire for offroad use. Would I buy these tires again? NO! They are a pain to balance and they weigh a ton since they are a 10 ply tire. My next choice will probalby be the MT/R again or the BFG Mud Terrain.
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