TainterRacing
Mudrunner
Reged: 04/17/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Petoskey, Michiagan
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It sounds like maybe cam timming off? Did you try a compresion test yet? Do one cly on each head. Should be very qick to do.
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1997 Montero LS with a motor swap a 1990 V6 12valve ported heads I run stock tire size for Daily use, off road have 33x12.5 working on going trubo.
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JohnnyBfromPeoria
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/10/02
Posts: 5093
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Did you try a compresion test yet? Do one cly on each head. Should be very qick to do.
Not on an SR. Intake plenum has to come off.
Fingers crossed for a quick, simple and cheap fix for you, Jay.
John B.
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TainterRacing
Mudrunner
Reged: 04/17/08
Posts: 344
Loc: Petoskey, Michiagan
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Ya I realized that after I said that . I have not worked much on the newer motors even tho I have one I just pulled it out. LOL
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1997 Montero LS with a motor swap a 1990 V6 12valve ported heads I run stock tire size for Daily use, off road have 33x12.5 working on going trubo.
Edited by TainterRacing (02/26/12 06:46 PM)
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TOASTY
Trail Leader
Reged: 01/17/02
Posts: 5057
Loc: Gilbert AZ, US.
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I was just thinking of texting you and asking how you were doing on this, anyway double check your plug wires with an operational truck before you take it to a shop. For some reason wires getting swapped seems to happen with that motor sometimes.
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Az Crew, full fledged member!
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K." -Ted.
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Canyonero
Mudrunner
Reged: 10/09/10
Posts: 492
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ.
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Yeah, still having trouble TOASTY. I'm 99% sure the plug wires are right. I marked them with the cylinder number before I removed them from the engine, but I never tested them.
I'm also 99% sure the timing is correct, since I had to do it a few times to get the marks lined up right. But there's that 1% of doubt since it seems to keep coming up.
Didn't have time to run any compression tests this weekend. Just the little poking around that I managed to slip in between landscaping and kids. I should have some time this upcoming weekend to dig a little deeper.
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1995 Montero SR
2" Body Lift
35x12.50x15 Cooper Discoverer STT
Aisins
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Canyonero
Mudrunner
Reged: 10/09/10
Posts: 492
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ.
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Got a chance to look at a few things real quick when I got home.
Coil/plug wires are all correctly routed. All coils tested at .9ohms (my meter wont go any lower than a single decimal place), and I tested the plug wire from #4 to #1 at 17.7K ohms. Coil values may be SLIGHTLY high from the spec of .85 but seem to be close enough to not cause issue. Can't seem to find my gauge OR my remote starter right now, so I'll have to dig them up to get some compression numbers.
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1995 Montero SR
2" Body Lift
35x12.50x15 Cooper Discoverer STT
Aisins
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justice
Roll Me Over
Reged: 02/06/00
Posts: 3164
Loc: Coastal N Carolina, USA
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I hope not, but maybe the valves collided with pistons when you had the cams in the wrong positions.
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99 Gen 2.5, fixing, awaiting build
89 SWB- 33's, ARB Front locker, SR rear locker/axle, SR F brakes, winch, WST Offroad Armor all Around, 2.85 Aussie T-case Gears
Sold: (2) 95 SR's, 86 SWB, 90LWB, 91 LWB
-Can Change a timing belt in my sleep..
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12746
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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OK, just saw your response to my post.
400ml in 10 sec is 2.4 liters in one minute, or between 2 and 2.5 qts, or about .625gal/min. I think that's adequate delivery. Didn't do all the math to check, tho. If you assume 3mpg at wot at 60mph, you only need 1/3 gallon/min...
On a cold start, you should smell slight gas smell at tailpipe from cold start enrichment. Strong gassy smell indicates cylinder misfire or leaking injector.
Just out of curiosity, did you time the motor atdc or btdc? And is the idle you achieve smooth, or does it misfire?
What you have sounds like a timing problem. I have goofed and set the timing at atdc instead of btdc, and it acted just as you describe. Timing will be very late in that case, with the spark real late, with the piston on the way down, and max cylinder pressure will occur long after the optimum crank angle. With a clockwise engine rotation, the crank mark will not be to the timing tag tdc mark by the timing degree amount. IOW, the crank tdc mark will be left of the tag tdc mark by what, 15 degrees?
If the idle is smooth (even tho weak), I do not think you dinged the valves. An easier test than a compression test is to use a vac gauge, attached to an intake mani vac port with a tee and short piece of hose. With the ignition off, crank the motor with a remote start button or asst with a screwdriver or alligator jumper wire shorting from 12v feed to starter (fat cable) to solenoid connector. The engine should turn over slowly enough to see the vac pulse from each cylinder on the gauge. Equal pulses = sound compression. Unequal pulses = mech compression problems.
I know, you said the timing was spot on. Check it anyway. One of the most important parts of diagnosing problems is checking what you are "sure" of. Been there and have the tshirt...
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"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."
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Canyonero
Mudrunner
Reged: 10/09/10
Posts: 492
Loc: San Tan Valley, AZ.
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Quote:
On a cold start, you should smell slight gas smell at tailpipe from cold start enrichment. Strong gassy smell indicates cylinder misfire or leaking injector.
There is a slight smell of fuel at idle. It wasn't overpowering at all.
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, did you time the motor atdc or btdc? And is the idle you achieve smooth, or does it misfire?
I am unsure what you mean here. This is my first engine rebuild and I'm still a novice to the terminology, so pardon my ignorance.
The way I timed the engine is with the valves all at rest. I brought #1 cylinder up to TDC to line the crank gear timing mark to the mark on the oil pump, then rotated back 2 teeth so the valves would clear when I lined up the cam gear marks to the valve cover marks. I locked the cams on the timing marks with 2 DOHC cam locking tools, and wrapped the belt over the cam gears and around the pulleys and crank gear. When setting the tension on the belt, it pulled the crank gear forward (clockwise) to line up with the mark on the oil pump. I rotated the engine twice to make sure the marks still lined up with #1 at TDC. Did I miss a step?
Quote:
What you have sounds like a timing problem. I have goofed and set the timing at atdc instead of btdc, and it acted just as you describe. Timing will be very late in that case, with the spark real late, with the piston on the way down, and max cylinder pressure will occur long after the optimum crank angle. With a clockwise engine rotation, the crank mark will not be to the timing tag tdc mark by the timing degree amount. IOW, the crank tdc mark will be left of the tag tdc mark by what, 15 degrees?
Yeah, this is where my lack of experience comes into play. I'm completely lost.
My idle is smooth when in park or neutral, but when any load is put on the engine, it idles very low, almost wanting to stall. I will purchase a vacuum gauge and try what you have suggested and look for equal vacuum pulses from an intake port.
I'll start tearing into the front of the engine to check my timing again, since the suggestion has been brought up multiple times. Might as well put that 1% doubt to rest.
Thank you again for your assistance fasteddy, and everyone else as well.
EDIT: Is it possible I swapped the camshaft sprockets also? Looks like they are two different numbers in the ASA program. I wonder if they are clocked different where the pin from the camshaft locks in? How would I tell the difference?
Edited by jinstv (02/27/12 10:53 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 12746
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I was not clear. I meant ignition timing, not cam timing. BTDC = before top dead center, ATDC means after top dead center. The 3.5 has a crank position sensor, and I don't know if it's adjustable - never did mine while I had it. I'll go look at the 3.5 manual and let you know. I trust the cam timing is correct or real close. I don't remember if the 3.5 has a cam position sensor, or how the ignition is actually timed.
Edit: The timing is not adjustable, but should be 5*btdc, +/-3*, with the brown single wire timing check connector on the firewall grounded. timing connector should be near the heater hoses, single wire into a brown connector which may have a sealer on the connector. Ground the wire inside the connector to a good ground - engine metal is good. Use a timing light to check the timing at the crankshaft (I think - manual is not clear)
IF the idle is stable and power is still not there, does it misfire as it tries to rev up, or just no power?
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"If you can't be a good influence, don't worry, you can still be a horrid example."
Edited by fasteddy (02/28/12 12:09 PM)
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