Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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I'm trying to troubleshoot a high idle issue (when the engine is warmed up).
*TPS adjusted correctly
*Fresh coolant, new thermostat, air bubbles have been burped from system.
*All vacuume lines are routed correctly and in good shape
*AFM has not been touched*
*Idle mixture screen turn the entire way in
*Not throwing any codes
With the idle screw in the entire way it idles around 1500 RPM's.
Here's the kicker, I took the truck out wheeling last weekend and it idled where it should the entire trip (in fact, i had to turn the idle screw back up where it was previously). It would only idle fine while crawling / staying at slow speeds, which was over 5 hours this day. About 5 minutes after I hit the paved roads I pulled in into neutral and it was idling at 1500 again.
I'm thinking it's sensor related; the coolant temperature sensor acutally. Since this is an uncommon thing to fail I thought I'd get some feedback before I pick one of these up.
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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4Crawler
Toyota 4-Wheeling Forum Moderator
Reged: 01/12/00
Posts: 12144
Loc: N. California. USA
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What is the ignition timing set to?
Also, is the throttle plate fully closing? Linkage should make contact with the stop screw.
--------------------
r.c.brown@ieee.org
TruckEditor@tlca.org
Project: 4Crawler
4Crawler OffRoad - 4x4Wire discount code
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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With the diagnostic terminals jumped I set it at 5 degrees.
The throttle body has been cleaned, it's contacting the stop screw. In addition, i removed the dash pot, cleaned, and lubed it properly.
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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4Crawler
Toyota 4-Wheeling Forum Moderator
Reged: 01/12/00
Posts: 12144
Loc: N. California. USA
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Might then be something temperature related as you noted. Could be the ECU sender is a bit off (reading too low a temp) and when you went wheeling, the temperature in the coolant went up a little and that was enough to kick the ECU out of fast idle mode. Or it may be the idle air valve is doing something similar. Or the thermostat may be too cold (or opening too soon) and that is making the engine run too cold.
--------------------
r.c.brown@ieee.org
TruckEditor@tlca.org
Project: 4Crawler
4Crawler OffRoad - 4x4Wire discount code
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Yeah, I agree with the coolant temp going up slightly while wheeling; enough to bring the idle back down to normal. To go along with the this if I shut the truck off and start it back up 5 minutes or longer it will idle normal (acutally lower than normal since the idle screw is in the entire way - again, this is because the coolant is slightly warmer now since it's not being cooled).
The thermostat was replaced with a 190 degree toyota stat; I don't think that's causing the issue.
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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*Update*
I replaced the Coolant temperature sensor last night without it making a difference.
I'm pretty stumped at this point. One other note is that this problem occurred shortly (2 weeks) before the headgasket went. Since I was loosing coolant before this I put in a good bit of Radiator stop leak to delay the inevitable.
After this I did a complete rebuild on the engine; I'm starting to think that possibly one of the smaller coolant lines could be sludged with the stop leak or something?
Any other ideas?
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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jasonmt
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/11/01
Posts: 286
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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The 22RE does not have a ECU controlled idle speed so I would start with the basics looking for any way air can bypass the TB like the idle air control in the TB and AC idle up circuit.
Take a look at page 8 here: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h21.pdf
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Quote:
The 22RE does not have a ECU controlled idle speed so I would start with the basics looking for any way air can bypass the TB like the idle air control in the TB and AC idle up circuit.
Take a look at page 8 here: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h21.pdf
Thanks for the link.. the Thermo Valve inside the Idle air control thingi sounds like the culprit.
I took the throttle body off and cleaned everything the best that I could, which needed cleaned anyway... That didn't seem to help but I'm going to give the idle valve the test by blocking the port while it's warm... if it's defective then it should drop the RPM's back to normal.
I'd hate to fork out 150 bucks for a new Idle control assembly but I think it's necessary because I can't find just the Thermo Valve (which is removable from inside the entire assembly).
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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sdsnowman
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 268
Loc: san diego california
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mine idles high sometimes and sometimes not- i found that if you just give the accelerator a little tap, it drops down to normal.
my cable is most likely clogged with sand.... just like everything i own.
sorry if i am throwing out a stupid simple thing but sometimes it is just something like that.
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MAC
Mudrunner
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 479
Loc: Lower Hudson Valley, New York
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May be a dumb question, but did you try to close the throttle plate by hand? Or maybe a simple (not simple to find necessarily) vacuum leak i.e. hose etc?
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babyhuey
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Reged: 03/04/05
Posts: 84
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vacuum leak!!
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MAC
Mudrunner
Reged: 08/09/03
Posts: 479
Loc: Lower Hudson Valley, New York
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Quote:
May be a dumb question, but did you try to close the throttle plate by hand? Or maybe a simple (not simple to find necessarily) vacuum leak i.e. hose etc?
woops I see that you checked the plate definitely closing above.
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applesauceman55
Need a Spot
Reged: 12/02/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Mid-Michigan
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Check your dashpot.
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1994 Pickup 4X4 22R-E 5 speed
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Quote:
Check your dashpot.
As mentioned before it's been cleaned and lubed so it's definitely not sticking...
In addition I haven't put it back on since I cleaned the throttle body.
So anyway, I performed a test with the idle by-pass valve by putting a piece of tape over the port in the throttle body. Not to my suprise this affected my idle; I had to back out the Idle mixture screw (to where it used to be when all was well) and it idled just fine when it was warmed up.
I guess I'm going to fork out some dough for a replacement or find another throttle body assembly to test it with first. I'll keep this thread updated...
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Update...
I scored a 93 throttle body with a TPS for 60 bucks! (Car-parts.com) which I'll be getting next week.
I'm just going to swap the entire TB over and give that a shot, with a little luck this will take care of it.
Even if it doesn't it's not a total loss since I'll have an extra TPS laying around.
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Another Update...
I cleaned up the junk yard throttle body and got it installed today... It runs exactly the same as before, eliminating the Idle Air Control Valve and the TPS as the problem.
I'm running out of ideas at this point and I'm not sure what else to check... 
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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jimIIIIII
Need a Spot
Reged: 08/30/07
Posts: 2
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Just had the same problem with my 93 xcab this last spring. I replaced the dashpot and the problem went away.
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Here's an update on this annoying issue.
I took off and cleaned the EGR and verified that all the vacuum lines were routed correctly. My idle is still fubared - even worse with the colder temperatures.
Here's a re-cap of what's been done...
TPS adjusted and working correctly
Fresh coolant - burped properly
New Thermostat
Vacuum lines routed correctly
Coolant Temp sensor replaced
Throttle body thoroughly cleaned
Throttle body swapped with another one (to test the idle air control valve)
Dashpot cleaned and NOT sticking
Throttle cable lubed and NOT sticking
Timing set at 5 degrees
No check engine codes
Idle screw is IN the entire way
And like before; if I'm crawling or idling for a long period of time (15 minutes or so) my idle will gradually drop to where it's supposed to be - I even have to adjust my idle screw out a few turns.
Any other thoughts?
Triple check the vacuum lines?
Is there an Air Temp sensor on or near the AFM?
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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4Crawler
Toyota 4-Wheeling Forum Moderator
Reged: 01/12/00
Posts: 12144
Loc: N. California. USA
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Quote:
Is there an Air Temp sensor on or near the AFM?
Yep:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml#AFMtesting
--------------------
r.c.brown@ieee.org
TruckEditor@tlca.org
Project: 4Crawler
4Crawler OffRoad - 4x4Wire discount code
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Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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I found the problem tonight.. Wow, am I ever relieved!
Here is it - clogged coolant passage from using 'Stop-Leak' in the past. This prevented fresh / warm coolant from making it to the temp sensor... The ECU was only sensing that the engine was cold which in turn increased amount the fuel = high RPM's and a very rich condition.
Thanks for all of the suggestions guys - hope this helps anybody in the future with a similar problem.
Edited by Kaptain (12/17/07 07:52 PM)
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longhaul
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 28
Loc: Austin, TX
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Good work, Kaptain. Congrats to you on (finally) getting this solved!
Would a 22R with a Weber 32/36 demonstrate the same symptoms if there was a clogged cooling passage? I can't see how it would but my truck is idling high and the dash temperature gauge is reading lower than normal...
Is there a way I can make sure coolant is cirulating through the engine? Is there any way the engine would at normal temp if coolant wasn't circulating?
ALSO- is it common for the truck (with the Weber) to run different when it's cold outside than when it's warm outside?
Thanks all!
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4Crawler
Toyota 4-Wheeling Forum Moderator
Reged: 01/12/00
Posts: 12144
Loc: N. California. USA
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|
Quote:
Good work, Kaptain. Congrats to you on (finally) getting this solved!
Would a 22R with a Weber 32/36 demonstrate the same symptoms if there was a clogged cooling passage? I can't see how it would but my truck is idling high and the dash temperature gauge is reading lower than normal...
Is there a way I can make sure coolant is cirulating through the engine? Is there any way the engine would at normal temp if coolant wasn't circulating?
ALSO- is it common for the truck (with the Weber) to run different when it's cold outside than when it's warm outside?
Thanks all!
Could be a thermostat that is stuck open or even missing. Might be worth pulling it out for a check.
--------------------
r.c.brown@ieee.org
TruckEditor@tlca.org
Project: 4Crawler
4Crawler OffRoad - 4x4Wire discount code
|
Kaptain
Mudrunner
Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 290
Loc: Duncannon, Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Good work, Kaptain. Congrats to you on (finally) getting this solved!
Would a 22R with a Weber 32/36 demonstrate the same symptoms if there was a clogged cooling passage? I can't see how it would but my truck is idling high and the dash temperature gauge is reading lower than normal...
Is there a way I can make sure coolant is cirulating through the engine? Is there any way the engine would at normal temp if coolant wasn't circulating?
ALSO- is it common for the truck (with the Weber) to run different when it's cold outside than when it's warm outside?
Thanks all!
Could be a thermostat that is stuck open or even missing. Might be worth pulling it out for a check.
x2 - if you haven't changed the t-stat lately I would check that first.
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93' Toy xCab
bobbed > 22rEB > w56 > stock duals > SAS > 4.88's > 37's
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