fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Phil "asked" me about writing this up some time ago, but I'm both lazy, and, thankfully, busy, and as I thought about writing the thing, I kept thinking about the ways I didn't do it, that other people have done, and definatly know more about than I do. Remember "lazy"? I'm about to put some of you to work.
Here's how I did it, and how I'd do it again.
Bought 85 Dodge Conquest donor car for $300 - rust bucket with blown head gasket - from buy-here-pay-here lot. Had never driven a Conquest before and had stopped jsut to look at this one. Opened the hood and said "Damn, that's a 2.6 block in there!", and a light bulb went off in my head. It was still running ok then, and it was a rocket compared to the D-50, and wieghed about the same. Left still thinking and went back the next day to buy it and it was already sold. 3 months later is was back on the back row with a dead engine. Bought it on the spot. Took it home and took it apart, bought the factory manual, had the motor rebuilt, yanked motor from 85 D-50, along with carb wiring harness and ecu. Spent hours in the driveway with two shop manual wiring diagrams in front of me dissecting the 'Quest harness. I used all of the efi harness, and acutally still have the 'Quest fuse block in the circuit, plus the wiring to the fusible links, and the link box itself, plus the cruise control system complete, including the control stalk, vac pump and all associated reservoirs and valves and switches, actuator, cable, and throttle pedal arm clip. Cruise never worked. Used turbo oil pump, but had to use truck pan after I found that turbo pan wouldn't clear front diff. Used truck p/s pump, but it had remote reservoir anyway. Put about 70k miles on it in the D-50 until it ate the second tranny (5spd). Bought 87 Raider, ran it until head gasket failed, and tranplanted the turbo into the a/t Raider. While the truck actually handled better (like a freaking sports car), the turbo/a-t is a much better match.
If I did it again, I'd use 88-89 donor, or at least an upgradeable 87, with intercooler and better fuel system. I'd build it with 8:1 hypereutectic pistons, 14G turbo, roller hydraulic cam, and 2.5" exhaust. Next upgrade would be mpi. I'd use KevinC's 90.5 lockup t/c v-6 tranny upgrade with a 2600rpm stall converter, and I'd put an lsd in the front pumpkin. I'd seriously consider 4.22 gears. I'd also import a 2dr Cabrio body tub, but that's another post.
Those of you who have done this, post your alternate fixes. I'll add stuff as I get the sections finished, like throttle cable, fuel lines, fuel pump, wiring tie ins to Monty, etc. If you want, grab some of those sections yourself ("lazy", remember).
Edited by PHIL (12/30/04 12:15 AM)
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StarionGTO
Wheeler
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Boulder Creek, California
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I cheated. I had an 87 Quest that needed a new balance shaft sitting in limbo up at a warehouse in the city. Bought the 88 Monty from a gentleman who said it had a "shimmy" on the city roads but not on the highway. That "shimmy" turned out to be sticky valves and they finaly stuck themselves while I was in the middle of a road trip. Had the Monty towed up to the warehouse and parked next to the Quest. I was pretty warry of putting a BS elimination kit in the Quest w/o having the bottom end balanced out so I decided to swap the Quest head onto the Monty's bottom end w/ good balance shafts. Was fairly straight forward. Removed the carb ECU 'n harness and whatnot, then installed the Quest harness and modded the old ECU box to fit the Quest's board. The head/electronics swap should have only taken a weekend, but other commitments and chasing down electrical gremlins sucked up many hours.
What would I have done differently? Definitly would have gone for an 88-89 harness/knock box and ECU. Would have used a good Quest bottom end and -possibly- put the Quest's final ratios in the Monty. It doesn't like passing other cars going 80, but then its a truck not a sports car and changing finals would probably ***** its off-road abilities.
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'87 Mitsubishi L300
'87 Chrysler Conquest TSi
'93 Honda CRX - AWD Stage Rally Project
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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I don't have anything to post, yet. I'm sure in a few more weeks I'll have a bunch of what-not-to-dos as I make my [beginner's] way through it. I'll look to post back as I learn things...
Edited by MontyMcV (05/18/04 11:37 PM)
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PHIL
Mitsubishi Section Editor and Moderator
Reged: 01/09/00
Posts: 6799
Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
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I've stickied this one, at FE's request. Few pointers, by way of making it more effective: If your signature is on the multiline side, maybe turn it off, just for this thread. Also, try to avoid taking this one off course too much. If clarification is needed on an issue that offshoots from this thread, just start a new thread and link to it from here.
Okay, spool up them turbos!!! 
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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What parts do you need?
Factory wiring diagrams (whole manuals are VERY nice to have) for both your truck and the donor
Starion parts:
engine block (or modify yours to take the piston oil squirters).
intake manifold with throttle body and all sensors, and brake booster hoses and check valve, and thermostat top with turbo water line fitting.
Exhaust manifold, turbo (with all hoses and hard lines), O2 sensor and exhaust housing, and downpipe with first cat.
steel water line on exhaust/rear of engine block for turbo water line fitting, or late model water pump with integral fitting.
NEW turbo oil feed line.
oil cooler with lines and block adapter (oil feed line attaches here) - lines will have to be modified to fit - I just used the banjo ends by cutting off the crimps with a whiz wheel and pulling off all the hoses and used ATF cooler hose and double quality clamps).
ECU with case.
control relay (near ecu on outer side of passenger footwell, beside glove box).
complete ecu wiring harness and everything connected to it, plus about 6" of wire and both halves of the harness plug that connects to the cross dash harness behind the glove box - this will be your splice into the vehicle wiring for constant 12v for ecu memory, switched 12v for ecu, and gnd.
air filter can with air flow meter and air temp sensor inside.
vapor canister.
timing cover (or drill and tap yours for a nipple for the turbo oil return line - the boss is already there with a depression in the middle, just drill and tap).
turbo heat shields.
Spark box and all associated wiring, starion distributor, and coil.
Entire Starion throttle cable - it points wrong at the firewall, but you can twist the curved tube into alignment (just a tad above horizontal to the left) with a little persuasion.
Starion SAS system complete (black box with vac can on the side between t/b and valve cover, hard pipe to exhaust, all soft lines).
Starion fuel pump, or aftermarket pump (master e8000 is good minor upgrade over stock, and master e2315 is a marked upgrade - AutoZone has both at about $90 and $135 respectively).
Starion fuel filter and all fuel lines from frame mounted hard lines to filter and from filter to TB, and from TB to hard return line.
Intercooler is donor so equipped, and all hoses.
Modifications to Starion motor to fit the Monty:
Use Monty oil pan, oil pump, oil dipstick (bent at rubber grommet to fit under the turbo) and pan pickup. This loses the starion intake-side dipstick and the oil vapor/liquid separator on the air filter lid's oil return fitting. I never hooked my liquid return up, and haven't really noticed any dripping out.
Use the truck motor mounts from the block out to the frame.
Use the truck p/s pump and bracket, but mount it before you put on the oil filter, because the p/s pump integral reservoir and the oil filter block access to the rear lower pump/bracket bolt.
Use the Starion alternator - it plugs right up and is of higher capacity.
Stuff you have to make:
Suprisingly little to fab. You need an entire exhaust system from downpipe to tailpipe. The Starion downpipe and both cats can be spiced into the stock tailpipe/muffler system (alignment is perfect side to side, and only about 1.5" too long), but the Monty pipe diameter is marginal for a carb motor, and chokes the life right out of the turbo. 2.5" is a good size, and if you cut off the downpipe at the weld of tube to the o2 sensor housing, you get a nice cast stub over which 2.5" tube fits nicely.
You need to mount one of the fuel pump choices near the tank. I mounted mine to the tubular crossmember between tank and rear axle with two hose clamps, and put a rubber cushion between pump and rail and clamps and rail to kill some sound. I used ordinary fuel line for the suction line to the tank outlet, but I put a stainless steel spring inside the line to keep pump suction from collapsing it. A section of closely fitting copper tube would also serve but do not use it for the sole fuel line - copper fatigues and cracks if clamped in a vibrating bind. I used fi fuel hose from pump to monty hard lines, with double aircraft quality hose clamps. I used just the end fittings from fuel filter lines with more fi fuel hose and double clamps. the fuel return line was more fi hose (overkill - return pressures are low) and clamps. You have to run a new wire from the control relay harness to the fuel pump - use pretty good size wire here, and ground the pump to the frame.
If you have an a/t, you need to fab a bracket for the tranny throttle vavle cable. The TB has two return springs on the throttle. One is a helical spring wrapped around the trhottle shaft. The other is a coil spring attached to a fixed bracket and to a secondary arm bolted to the throttle shaft. I removed the coil spring, and rebent the secndary arm. I used a piece of 1"w x 1/8"th w/ 3/8" holes on 1" centers perforated steel strap for the bracket (hdw store has it in various lengths). I twisted it 90* about 2.5" from one end, and bolted it the the lower part of the driver's side of the TB where the fat ground wire goes. I positioned the other end by twising on the attaching bolt and bending to get it at about 4.1" from the end of the rebent arm. I had drilled the end of the rebent arm to accept the tv cable clevis end pin. The effective length of the tv cable is adjustable by two nuts that sandwich the mounting bracket on a threaded tube that forms the end of the tv cable housing for fine adjustments, and by moving the bracket for coarse ones. I had to find the proper adjustment by trial and error, observing upshift/downshift speeds until they felt right.
If you use the intercooler, you have to work on routing of the hoses thru the radiator core support, and mounting brackets. I haven't done one yet, so some of you "cooler" guys chime in. Use one if you can, as it's worth quite a few ponies.
You have to make the lines for and mount the oil cooler.
You have to supply the starion harness with constant-on 12v, ignition switched 12v, start position 12v, and gnd from the truck wiring system, and ground all the efi harness ground wires.
You have to relocate the firewall grommet on the starion harness to a position closer to the ecu, and provide a firewall hole for the O2 sensor wire which runs seperate from the main efi harness, and has it's own grommet.
You can (I didn't) provide mounting hard points for the air filter can.
There is an ecu function that shuts off the fuel to the engine during coast down with a closed throttle and vehicle speed above some minimum value. The ecu requires a signal from the vehicle speed sensor to do this (it works ok without it hooked up, but you are losing some mpg, and making a smidgen of extra emissions). The starion has an electronic speedo in some models (with the LCD dash) or a pulse generator (in the analog dash models) that provide this signal. The Monty has a reed switch in the speedo that gives an acceptable signal, and you can tap it's wire either at the main dash plug, or at the "4wd" and "Locked" light control relay over by where you're going to mount the ecu. think it's a yellow/green wire, but check your wiring diagram.
Now what have I forgotten....
Stuff you need to fix first:
You need a first rate cooling system in first rate operating condition. If you have a 3 row core stock radiator, have it rodded at a minimum. If you have a 2 row, have a 3 row new core installed in your tanks
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Edited by fasteddy (05/19/04 09:18 PM)
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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This comes at a perfect time for me! Beers to you my friend... 
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I drink Cerveza Imperiale from Costa Rica (the gods dont' have it this good), and accept donations....
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87Montero
Trail Leader
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 5141
Loc: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
This comes at a perfect time for me! Beers to you my friend...
what he said! im starting on mine tomorrow, im getting a perfect '88 conquest engine
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Starion Fuel System Primer
Starions use throttle body injection with two injectors, either alternate firing 500cc (50lb+/-) injectors in < 86.5, and primary 600cc + secondary 1000cc in 86.5 and up. The system uses inputs from air mass meter, air temp sensor, throttle position, manifold absolute pressure (MAP), engine rpm from coil -, water temp, vehicle speed sensor, and O2 sensor (in closed loop mode) to regulate injector pulse time and secondary injector startup to adjust fuel quantity.
The air flow meter is a Karmann vortex sensor. The greater the air mass flowing thru the meter, the larger the number fo vortices formed in the flow, and the vortices are counted by an ultrasonic beam crossing the air flow path. Only a portion of the airflow is metered, with the balance bypassing the meter, and actual airmass interpolated from measured sample. The AFM is located in the lid of the air filter can, as is the air temperature sensor, a thermistor type sensor. The combo of air flow and air temp measured yields air mass flowing.
The water temp sensor tells the ecu if the mixture needs to be enriched for proper cold engine mixtures, like a carb choke works. It's another thermistor, two wire sensor on the water neck.
The throttle position sensor tells the ecu the driver's power demand at this instant, and over time, to tell the ecu if driver wants to accelerate (accel needs richer mixtures) or back off (mixture leaned or injectors killed for economy/emissions), or cruise at steady state (ecu goes into closed loop, where O2 sensor signals tell ecu to enrichen or lean the mixture to keep mixtures around 14.7:1 stoichiometric least emissions mixture. The ecu uses air mass as a basic paramater, adds cold enrichment, accel enrichment, and deducts decel lean out, and uses the final sum as injector pulse time from a master lookup table in ROM in the ecu (ROM is the "chip" that carries the permanent operating programs and lookup tables for the ecu). The injectors get 12v+ power all the time, current flow limited by resistors in between power source and injector, and the injector ground is switched by the ecu to make the injector circuit for the lookup pulse time. since the pressure is kept constant at the injector by the fuel pressure regulator, and fuel pressure as regulated is further adjusted by boost pressure (so fuel always has the same pressure drop across the injector valve opening), you only have to regulate pulse time to regulate fuel quantity VERY closely.
One further alteration of fuel pressure is performed by the MAP sensor signal. This is a 2 bar MAP sensor, convering a range of -15psi vacuum to +15psi of boost, and incorporates in pre 86.5 versions a 14psi boost pressure switch. The 14psi switch kills engine spark when triggered as a failsafe for overboosted engines. If the ecu does not see a spark event, it won't pulse the injectors and kills the fuel pump. The ecu uses MAP signals for enrichment when under turbo boost. Engines make best power around 12.0:1 - 13.0:1 mixtures. Low vacuum or high (really any) boost or a fast opening throttle (TPS over time signal) means power is required, and the ecu increases pulse time some more for more fuel to the motor.
The TB has a combo ISC and idle position switch. The isc controls idle throttle opening with a stepper motor to control idle rpm, and uses the idle position switch to tell the ecu driver is off the gas completely, and the ecu consults the vehicle speed sensor to be sure the vehicle isn't stopped, and if not, kills fuel entirely for economy and emissions, and if stopped, uses the ISC to control engine speed.
Turbo boost is limited by a mechanical system. A sealed can with single diaphragm (87 and earlier) or double two stage diaphragm (88-89) and a rod connected to the diaphragm control the opening of the waste gate, a valve that controls the bypass of exhaust gas around the turbo power turbine, limiting boost pressure by applying boost pressure to the diaphragm in oppositon to a calibrated spring. When bosst pressure hits 7.5psi (=<87 and 88-89 first stage), or 10psi (88-89 2nd stage), the pressure overcomes the spring, moves the rod, opens the waste gate valve, and limits power to the turbo. *88-89 a/t cars had up to 10psi in all gears. m/t cars were limited to 7.5psi in lower gears to protect fragile tranny. The StarQuest used the same m/t internals, so be warned.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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When you swap a turbo motor in you have a couple of options for clutches if you have a standard tranny.
The 88-89 Starions used a larger diameter disk, pressure plate and a flywheel with a bolt pattern to take the larger pressure plate.
This clutch is nice since you get more surface area to absorb heat so it takes a bit more slippage when climbing rocks before it gets too hot. The complete unit is a bolt in.
The down side is it takes a bit more pedal effort.
The stock montero clutch will hold moderate boost levels when it is in good condition. 14 psi boost would be pushing it and if you tow it may not last very long with the added load.
The stock montero 4 cyl clutch is the same size as the 87 and older Starions.
Kevin C
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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If you are running an automatic the turbo motor is a drop in on the 4 speed auto. If you have an older 3 speed auto the bolt pattern is differant (86 and older).
The 4 speed auto is pretty strong and the 4 cyl unit is very similar to the V6 auto.
The V6 auto has a lock up converter (most likely phased in somewhere in late 89- early 90).
Improvments to the transmission.
As Eddy pointed out you must have the throttle cable hooked up. No throttle cable = fried transmission from slippage.
The 4 cyl transmission can use the line pressure regulator spring from the V6 to get a higher line pressure to improve shifts and reduce the chance of slippage. This is an internal part in the valve body. you can also shim the spring a little bit. I would not bother shimming the V6 spring.
It is also possible to use a V6 tranny if you bolt the 4 cyl bell housing on it. This gets you a lock up converter on the 4 cyl. The vehicle will run cooler on the highway and get better fuel economy. The taller the tires you run the more important this is (more load on the drive line = more converter slippage= more heating & worse fuel economy).
Kevin C
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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Compression ratio:
The 7 to 1 cr on the stock turbo motor will work just fine. However you can safely raise it to 8 to 1 for a bit more low end torque and better fuel economy. You will need to run 91 octane.
Rasing yourt CR past 8.5 can be dicey. You will be boost limited and the gains vs the risk may not be worth it.
If you are converting a carb motor to to a turbo you will need to use a detonation sensor. Not all blocks have a boss for this. Most 87 and newer have this and its even tapped.
What you wont have if you use a carb motor's engine block is the piston coolers. These are oil squirters that spray the bottom of the piston to reduce piston temperature. If you want to run a signifigant amount of boost you should have these. A guess is up to six psi boost if you dont have to have them. Past that... let me know how it worked.
The piston coolers can be added to any motor that has the detonation sensor boss (turbo block). I used a bridgport mill and some extended cutters to spot-face drill and tap for them.
Since a decent block may be hard to find this may be a good option.
Kevin C
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Starion ignition system
There are a couple of dizzy types, so some of this is only specific to the one I have (85 Conquest).
The Starion dizzy is quite similar to the Monties, but the vac advance can has two functions, and the igniter is not in the dizzy in the Starion (it's in the spark box). In this dizzy, the centrif advance moves the rotating part of the sensor (the 4 toothed wheel) against rotation to give advance. The "vac" can moves the stator part (the reluctor, I guess) in both directions. It supplies ignition advance under manifold vacuum, and ignition retard under turbo boost. All these functions are strictly mechanical, as opposed to the electronic advance games we are about to look at.
The starion has a knock or spark box, either a black plastic box or a cad plated metal box about the size of a pack of playing cards. This box contains the igniter, which senses the change of voltage sign as the a/c generator in the dizzy (the star wheel, reluctor, and coil thingy) passes thru zero votage on its way from + to -, and - to +. When the box senses this phase change (I don't know how, it's a "black box", remember?), it interrupts the coil's primary - terminal connection to ground, triggering the magnetic field collapse in the coil, which generates the huge secondary votage of the ignition spark. The knock box also monitors the extremely weak piezoelectric signal from the detonation sensor when a shock wave from a detonating cylinder hits the quartz crystal inside the sensor (the piezpelectric effect is one in which a mineral - a quartz crystal - gives off an electrical current when compressed, as when the shock wave front hits it - or when a mechanical noise of the right intensity hits it, more on this later). This very weak signal (route det sensor wire away from plug wires, or other noisy electrical sources) travels thru a shielded wire to the knock box. when it hits a programmed threshold level, the knock box intervenes in the timing to retard the spark further electronically, seperate from the mechanical advance/retard systems noted above. There is also a failsafe mode, in which the knock box throws in some huge spark retard (12-20 degrees), killing power, when it doens't see any signal fromt the det sensor. Very good contact is necessary to conduct the det sensor signal thru the connectors - both signal and shield wire run thru the connector. A mechanically noisy engine (whacking lifters, slapping pistons, bad idler pulley bearings, spapping b/shaft chains or timing chains, etc.) can trigger the det sensor threshold, killing engine performance even in the absence of detonation, just by retarding the spark. Early model (< 86.5) MAP sensors also incorporated a pressure switch that causes the knock box to kill engine spark when boost goes above 14.5psi. This also kills fuel delivery, because the ecu uses the tach signal from the coil - to time injection and read engine rpms - no spark means no fuel either. It's like slamming into a thick mud pit at full wot acceleration, or a short field landing in a C-130 when the pilot goes to full reverse prop pitch just as the wheels touch. Full tilt WHOA.
Some Starion coils use a ballast resistor to cut coil voltage. The resistor is bypassed in ign. start position to get a stronger spark for cranking. I use an Accel Super Sport coil, about $39 at AutoZone, without a ballast resistor, and have strong spark up to 6k. Some Starion systems have spark fade above 5k.
I run a NO pressure switch on the oil pressure circuit that kills spark below about 25psi by interrupting the coil + wire, with a switched bypass that I've never had to use. This also assures you have at least 25psi of oil pressure before it will fire off, saving some cold start wear. It also assures that if the oil pressure drops while you are negotiating the I285 Grand Prix in Atlanta and not paying attention to the gauges, you won't lunch the engine, which is the primary purpose of the system. Similar to an oil pressure idiot light but it breaks a circuit instead of opening one.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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The B-38 connector is the graft point for the starion system into the Monty. It's on the Starion harness, and I think it lives in the Starion under the glove box, but the manuals on cd I have (88 Conquest) are missing the harness layout pages 8-36 and 8-37 (and I'd love to have a scanned copy at the best resolution you've got of those!). I do have the circuit diagrams, and here's the basic wiring you need to do. All wire color codes reference the ecu side of the B-38 connector, a male 14 pole connector. L is blue, B is black, Lg is light green and the others are evident. First letter of the color code is main wire color, second is color of tracer stripe(s)The number is the mm2 cross sectional area of the wire - bigger is fatter, no # is 1mm2 xsect. area. Orient the plug so the L (blue) wire is at the center top position. That's #4. Number l>r and t>b.
1 not used
2 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
3 1.25-B Necessary - wire to Batt. + with fuse protection
4 2-L Necessary - wire to ign sw. On position 12v+
5 not used
6 RB necessary?? - wire to Batt 12v+ w/ fuse = amps of SQ multipurpose fuse
7 not used
8 (first of bottom row) LgB not needed - used in SQ for faking the boost pressure on the LED gauge
9 YG optional but nice to have - wire to Monty speedo reed switch circuit*
10 not used
11 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
12 BR nice to have - trouble code output - wire a jumper wire to put it in reach, and use a voltmeter to read the trouble codes (all 6 of them)
13 not used
14 not used
If you can when you get the donor stuff, get about 6" of the hrness and the other half of the B-38 connector, so you have a plain butt splice. The old Monty carb ecu connector will have many of the various 12v+ inputs you need. Consult your Monty manual for the pin out, and you can use the ecu harness side of that connector with a few inches of wire to make the butt splices to the 6" of wire on the female half of the B-38 connector noted above.
* Try getting a pulsed 12v signal on the yellow wire at the 4wd indocator light relay box on the C-28 connector at the box on the passenger side footwell wall or the C-6 connector at the rear of the instrument cluster (on an 87 Monty) for this connection.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Edited by fasteddy (10/28/04 05:35 PM)
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Quote:
timing cover (or drill and tap yours for a nipple for the turbo oil return line - the boss is already there with a depression in the middle, just drill and tap).
My Quest was already partially disassembled when I got it. Looks to me that the turbo oil return is to the PS side of the oil pan. Nothing on my timing cover. Where is the boss to drill and tap? Looks like that may it at about 12:00 on the front face of the cover?
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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No.
It's on the passenger side of the timing cover. Even timing covers without the nipple should have a round boss with a sunken center, fairly high. The Starion stuff I have case a lazy c shaped hose from the big nipple on the bottom of the turbo center housing to a matching o.d. nipple x mipt, with the timing cover drilled and tapped to fit the mipt. Constant downhill slope is absolutely necessary, because you want no impediment to oil drain back. The oil circuit is via steel line from oil cooler adapter to top of turbo center housing, entering main poil gallery that feeds (1) double oil film shaft bearings - 100krpms here!, and (2)thrust plates, with the bleed off oil drining into the open area of the center housing, hopefully not hitting the shaft (windage losses), and out the drain nipple. Any obsturction to flow can pool up the oil in the housing, killing turbo rotation and letting the oil coke up in the extreme heat from the exhaust side. It's a water cooled housing, but it still gets HOT in there, and even hotter if you don't let it idle down in temp some (the only reason for a turbo timer, and a good one). This coking is the reason for the short oil change intervals on the turbo motors, along with more blow-by from higher pressured combustion.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Duh! It's so close to the water pump that I when I glanced at it I thought it was for a heater line. (I didn't see in the FSM where the non-turbo end ran to.)
Thx
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OKRED
Rock Warrior
Reged: 10/12/03
Posts: 578
Loc: SoCal
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Hi fella's I'm back!
Not back in the states though.
This is the first time I have seen this turbo write up, and I wanted to comment on the B-38 connecter, I have some nice detailed pictures on the forum somewhere of the connection and where it goes in the truck, should make the job a little clearer.
Chris
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A brand spankin new 1973 series 3 Landy
OLIVE DRAB SWB, TURBO, IN ABOUT 36 PIECES
89 TROOPER, RESCUED FROM THE YARDS. (Down again)
05 TACOMA CREW SHORTY.
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Chris's write up is here
Run a search on user name okred, and subject "38" and date newer than a year for more on his successful conversion.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hey guys, I dont have a raider/tero but i do have a starion and know a fair share. If something comes up you need answered just let me know. Everything ive read here so far seems correct. I didnt like the part about using hyper U pistons though. Big no no on turboed engines in my eye. I would stick with forged, JE or wiseco makes them. Wiseco is limited to 8:1 comp but JE are custom to what you want.
86 would be a year to avoid for a swap. Block is the same and everything mechanical is the same(mech advance weights are different on intercooled models, they have more advance) but the electronics are a cluster. It uses the MAS and air temp in the mas like the others but has an additional air temp in the ovcpipe. It runs sequetial injection like the 85 and older. 87 and up like was mentioned used pri/sec setup. 83 was totally different as well. as far as TB and injector housing. pin out on the ecu is different from other years as well. I appologize if this was covered, I skimmed through most of it. For the valve train setup. earlier cars are better. the later years, i believe 86+ used hyd lifters. pre 86 used a mechanical setup. Needs more adjustment but is better. Roller rockers fit off of a few other cars but i dont have the list infront of me. If I was gonna go through a swap like this i wouldnt waste my time with the stock starion fuel system. I would use a stand alone. Ive built a megasquirt unit but there are tons of other options for the more financially enabled, but imo the MS unit is better then most for a small fraction of the price.
Like i said. let me know if i can help with any info.
matt
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Rather have stuff twice than not. Thanks for chiming in.
Re the hyper-u vs. forged, I reason thus:
We aren't about high boost and wads of 7000rpm hp here, and if we have a working fuel and ignition system, shouldn't see much chance of detonation. You can fit hyper-u pistons tighter, which gives: better ring seal, less noise, longer skirt life. You can heat coat the crowns of hyper-u's to almost match the detonation resistance of a forged piston. The forged is ultimately stronger, but IMHO, hot worth the trade off. If you are building a strip or street race motor, I'd go forged, but not here in an SUV.
I tend to agree on the aftermarket efi systems. And I'll build an 88-89 system on mine on this rebuild, and go to port efi as the next mod, either MS or SDS. Have you guys ever found generic replacement injectors for the StarQ TBI?
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i do agree about the pistons. as long as you guys keep under 15psi and dont have any det problems you should be fine with hypers, geting them coated burns off in a few hundred miles, waste of money in my opinion unless you are tuning an ignition system. There is a new company out with a new alloy for their forged pistons which claims you can run a closer tolerance due to this new alloy and its expansion properties so not as much cold piston slap. still looking into it. also you guys that want to run the intercooled setup you could run a non intercooled dist with less mechanical advance and maybe advance the timing a few more degrees off the go. also there is a board member that makes adjustable cam gears, another option for tuning down low. I dont know much about using the 2.6 off road, ive got a 300 I6 bronco that does me just fine and the low end torque is definately where its at so i can see why you guys want this torque beast.
Not so much in the way of generic injectors. i know a few guys who have run venom injectors in their flatsiders. 650cc injectors. probobly way cheaper then a stock replacement. I seem to remember awhile back someone modifying the injector housing but nothing that was simple from any other domestic or foreign car. I have also seen a 5.0 mustang tb mated to the manifold, might be an option and just weld two mpi injector bungs at the Y's in the runners and use mpi injectors and not these horribly inefficeint wet manifold crap. It would be easy enough to make a plate with an extra runner to a different tb in that case for even more low end. you ever considered supercharging the motor? there is a guy on one of the starion boards that super charged his quest. results were good down low but seriously lacking up top. Ive often considered a super charger running on an ac style clutch/pulley where you could disengage it after xrpms and let a turbo take over. would be very good for low rpm stuff and still pull on the highway.
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NathanC
Roll Me Over
Reged: 04/22/02
Posts: 3613
Loc: Oregon, WI
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Quote:
you ever considered supercharging the motor? there is a guy on one of the starion boards that super charged his quest. results were good down low but seriously lacking up top. Ive often considered a super charger running on an ac style clutch/pulley where you could disengage it after xrpms and let a turbo take over. would be very good for low rpm stuff and still pull on the highway.
I have an Eaton M62 sitting next to me right now  . Still trying to figure out exactly how I want to execute using it. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears .
EDIT: Out of respect for the others, I don't wanna clutter this post up so if you want respond here about the supercharger.
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'06 Dakota QC 4.7 6sp 4x4
'94 Montero SR back to stock 
'88 Mighty Max slowly gathering parts :)
'77 KZ1000 fun old bike
'60 Dodge D300
"Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference." - Ron Paul
Edited by NathanC (07/06/04 09:43 PM)
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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Reference KevinC's post on manual tranny clutch options:
The business end of the crankshaft on the StarQuest engine, where the flywheel bolts on, will have a pin coming out between two of the bolt holes. To accomodate that pin, you must use a StarQuest flywheel. The Montero flywheel does not have a mating hole.
There's a potential pitfall for ya.
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OKRED
Rock Warrior
Reged: 10/12/03
Posts: 578
Loc: SoCal
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That pin comes out, I switched from manual to auto in my swap and had to remove it.
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A brand spankin new 1973 series 3 Landy
OLIVE DRAB SWB, TURBO, IN ABOUT 36 PIECES
89 TROOPER, RESCUED FROM THE YARDS. (Down again)
05 TACOMA CREW SHORTY.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Eddy,
My name is Chris and I'm from Romania. I have an 89 Starion without balance shaft and jet valves. The engine is not spining more than 4k rpms. Can it be the detonation sensor, because I changed the hydraulic lifters with mechanical ones?
Where is the quartz sensor located?in the engine block? can I bypass it?
Thank you, Chris.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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its on the exhaust side of the block threaded in infront of the oil filter. is it not revving past 4k exactly or does it change. That could be a few things. Check to make sure your secondary injector clip is in good condition. Check your intank filter screen (there is an access panel under the false floor in the hatch area on drivers side(disconect power first!!!) and the inline cone screen before the pump. alot of times these small screens will be come clogged and not able to provide fuel at higher rpms. If you just swapped the head maybe your timing is a tooth off. the knock sensor on later years wont restrict all that much. On 88-89 assuming you have a two port waste gate(really 3 ports) it will restrict your boost to 7.5psi and i believe will restrict your preprogramed advance but your mechanical advance and vacuum is not affected(im not sure if your vac advance runs through one of those solenoid valves or not). I got rid of all that mess.
hope this helps
matt
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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i forgot to add. the det sensor looks for a very small range of freq. i doubt its because your running mechanical setup and no BS's. the vibration from removing the bs's would not be in the freq range. now if your a tooth off on your cam gear or your getting pre.detonation it very well may be. If your boost has not decreased from 10.5 to 7.5 id say no(as long as your stock ignition system and boost sensor is in tact)
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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Quote:
geting them coated burns off in a few hundred miles, waste of money in my opinion unless you are tuning an ignition system.
Well.... My first pistons were coated on the skirts. I pulled them at 14,000 miles to swap out the Total oil leak rings and the coatings were still good... Super polished at the thrust face and still working.
The best thing was no scuffing.. very good insurance during break in.
The second set of pistons I has coated on the skirts and the tops. Not sure if the ceramic on the tops really helps but it is still there after two years...
My experiance is that the skirt coatings work very well. The ceramic top coating? No proof it really helps but it has not come off.
Higher silicon forging alloys are common and allow tighter clearances but still expand more than a hyperutetcic casting alloy.
Kevin
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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I ran some 0 to 20 and 0 to 60 tests and found that larger diamter piping from the turbo to the intercooler and to the throtle body helped pre boost power as well as power under boost.
I have upgraded all the piping from the turbo to the throttle body to 2". I cut more than a second off on the 0 to 60 and get better throttle response.
Kevin
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Quote:
...You have to run a new wire from the control relay harness to the fuel pump - use pretty good size wire here, and ground the pump to the frame...
I have looked through my Quest FSM and cannot find details on the fuel pump connector (E24) telling me which wire is pos and neg? Nor can I find the control relay in the book. I will try to trace the lines in the Quest next...
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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The E-24 connector is not in the harness you have, It's in the rear harness, and is connected to the fuel pump via the B-34 (single wire in double wire connector). The control relay is referred to in the manual as the ECI control relay. The wire you want to splice to is 2-BW, a fat black wire with a white stripe that comes out of the B-30 connector at the control relay. I ran 8ga from there to the fuel pump, and grounded the fuel pump to the frame. The B-30 connector is a rect. 8 wire connector, with B, R, BR, BW (your wire), L (blue), BY, another B, and WR coming out of it. It should be within 12" of the main ecu connection on the harness.
For further info, the E-24 is a round weatherproof connector - BY is +, skinnier B is ground.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Edited by fasteddy (07/26/04 02:24 PM)
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Got it. Seen all those enough now that I think I understood every bit, without looking at the truck! -Thx
Now I'm pissed! Just found it all in the ECI section of the FSM. And I distinctly remember seeing it before and saying to myself "remember this part..." 
Edited by MontyMcV (07/27/04 09:11 AM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Yup. Lost it the same way myself once.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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I've been doing some searching in prep for putting in the harness and thought I'd post links to two threads out there.
Talk to me Turbo Guys This one has the Monty side of the B38/B37 hookup.
Turbo wiring question (almost finished).
There are also some good links in them. One links to someone's (Liz?) "modified" wiring diagram that also shows the coil hookup.
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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On the throttle cable...
Rather than bend around the Quest's (twisting tubes often goes badly for me), I noticed that where the firewall flange enters the bent tube, the tube is crimped with two pin hits to holt it to the flange. I drilled out the crimps, and rotated it (two faces of the flange's hex I think) so that it is nearly in the same position as the Raider's. I then hit it on opposite sides with a small nail set to recrimp it. It felt very solid, but I threw a little JB on it anyways.
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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On the power steering pump...
My Raider PS hard lines were not replaced with all my other lines. Turns out they should have been. Also, I had one pump that definitely leaked, and another that was suspect. So, I in the interest of economics, I used the Quest lines and rebent them to fit, and then used the Quest pump as well.
The main difference between the pumps has been identified as the different connection ends on the HP line from the pump. The Raider is banjo and the Quest is flared. In looking at the pumps closer, they both have a fitting that looks threaded into the pump housing. I would bet that the housing has the same threads and that the fitting can be changed out. I didn't want to try in case there was an o-ring that would then need to be replaced, and since I needed the Quest flare anyways at this point.
Otherwise, if working with a donor car, it would be easier to swap the fittings and go with the Quest pump and remote resevoir, than to pull the Raider's tank off and splice a line, etc.
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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When making the underhood connections, make sure you use the oil sending unit wire connection from the Montero - not the one on the StarQuest harness.
The StarQuest connector is just beside the detonation sensor harness connection. Tape it off.
The one you want to use is on the part of the Monty harness that runs under the windshield washer tank. This section of wiring will still be there after you remove the entire carb harness. You will find it right near the washer tank. Mine was resting on the fender well looking lonely.
Plug it in to the sender - you got oil pressure.
Thanks to Monty McV and FastEddy for clearing these muddy waters.
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87 Montero, bought new, by me -
88/89 intercooled Starion Turbo engine-
with awesome audio.
"When the well's dry, we know the worth of water." - Ben Franklin
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I goofed something on the B38 connector post. I edited it there, and I'll repeat it here. The correction is in RED :
The B-38 connector is the graft point for the starion system into the Monty. It's on the Starion harness, and I think it lives in the Starion under the glove box, but the manuals on cd I have (88 Conquest) are missing the harness layout pages 8-36 and 8-37 (and I'd love to have a scanned copy at the best resolution you've got of those!). I do have the circuit diagrams, and here's the basic wiring you need to do. All wire color codes reference the ecu side of the B-38 connector, a male 14 pole connector. L is blue, B is black, Lg is light green and the others are evident. First letter of the color code is main wire color, second is color of tracer stripe(s)The number is the mm2 cross sectional area of the wire - bigger is fatter, no # is 1mm2 xsect. area. Orient the plug so the L (blue) wire is at the center top position. That's #4. Number l>r and t>b.
1 not used
2 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
3 1.25-B Necessary - wire to Batt. + with fuse protection
4 2-L Necessary - wire to ign sw. On position 12v+
5 not used
6 RB necessary?? - wire to Batt 12v+ w/ fuse = amps of SQ multipurpose fuse
7 not used
8 (first of bottom row) LgB not needed - used in SQ for faking the boost pressure on the LED gauge
9 YG optional but nice to have - wire to Monty speedo reed switch circuit*
10 not used
11 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
12 BR nice to have - trouble code output - wire a jumper wire to put it in reach, and use a voltmeter to read the trouble codes (all 6 of them)
13 not used
14 not used
If you can when you get the donor stuff, get about 6" of the hrness and the other half of the B-38 connector, so you have a plain butt splice. The old Monty carb ecu connector will have many of the various 12v+ inputs you need. Consult your Monty manual for the pin out, and you can use the ecu harness side of that connector with a few inches of wire to make the butt splices to the 6" of wire on the female half of the B-38 connector noted above.
* Try getting a pulsed 12v signal on the yellow wire at the 4wd indocator light relay box on the C-28 connector at the box on the passenger side footwell wall or the C-6 connector at the rear of the instrument cluster (on an 87 Monty) for this connection.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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And what was #2 before?
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87Montero
Trail Leader
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 5141
Loc: Greenville, SC
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so that means that both pins 2 and 11 can be wired together?
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'92 Isuzu Pickup: V6,4x4,5spd,TJM Bumper,9k Winch.
'07 Corolla S
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I had #2 as grounded.
Yes, the two black/yellow wires can come from the same switched 12v source.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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Connections to the ECU for a 88-89 Starion.
The third picture con2.jpg has the spark box connector at the bottom center of the picture.
Dist type: It must be a turbo dist. The non turbo units have an igniter built in and are not compatible. the turbo has only a pickup coil and where the igniter goes is empty.
Power to the coil: You need to have 12 volts direct to the coils hot side. I got mine from the original carb motors ignition feed.
There will be two wires for the ignition from the original harness (these stayed even after you removed the original carb engine harness). One of these wires is 12 volts when in the run position. The other is 12 volts when the key is in the cranking position. Connect both of these to the positive terminal on the coil.
The factory turbo spark box will ground the negative terminal on the coil. When a spark is called for it will disconnect this ground and you will get a spark as the magnetic field in the coil collapses.
I am assuming you tested two coils and you don’t have a bad coil or coil wire.
Next on my list is power and ground for the spark box.
The box has a 10 pin connector. Look at the pin side of the connector with the retaining clip facing upwards. On the top row second wire from the left (1.25 mm black wire) is ground. Verify this with an ohmmeter between the pin and the body of the vehicle.
Verify the motor is grounded to the body as well.
The top right wire goes to ground as well (Black with a yellow stripe). This same wire connects to pin 58 on the ECU.
Power to the spark unit comes from the ECI control relay.
This wire is in the bottom row of the connector in the center position (red 1.25 mm). This wire must have power during cranking and when in the run position. This same wire goes to pin 51 on the ecu for ecu power.
Next on the list is the connection to the coil. There are a number of connections to the coil. One is a blue white wire (bottom row second from the left). This connects the negative terminal of the coil.
Also connector to the negative side of the coil is the tach wire that goes into the original wiring harness.
Make sure the fuel injection harness is grounded near the spark box. Look for a large lug with a large and a smaller black wire going to it. Make sure it has a good connection to the body.
Connections!
Connections you need to make the system work:
You will notice a number of large black squares. Those are the ground points (1,2, 5, 8, 9,11).
System power:
You need power connected to four wires.
1: At the ignition switch to the wire labeled 2-BY (black wire with a yellow stripe). This wire needs to get voltage only in the cranking position.
2: The ON wire again at the ignition switch labeled 3-BW (black wire with a white stripe). This wire needs power in the cranking position and when running. I can post the connections to the ignition switch for a 87 Raider a bit later.
3: The next wire is the power to the fuel pump relay the wire is a 1.25 mm black wire to the battery (connector A34)
4: The last wire is the ECU’s constant power wire. It is also connected through connector A34 (3-W, white wire). This guy needs a small fuse and constant power from the battery. This keeps the memory working when you shut the car off the ECU remembers what tuning it learned when driving around.
That is all the EFI power the system needs to work.
You still need power to the + side of the ignition coil.
You can power the ignition coil from either the Starion harness or the Montero’s original harness. I like using the power wire from the Montero harness.
Remember you need to see +12v at the positive side of the coil during cranking and running.
The negative side should be held low and go high to produce a spark.
Kevin
Edited by Kevin C (11/05/04 01:13 PM)
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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You can use the stock converter for a down pipe or get a custom made one. I had been running an old Starion converter that had long ago lost its guts.
I found a source for a 16 gauge 304 ss mandrel bend for $30 with a 80º angle that fits pretty well. I also bought a couple of 1/2" thick flanges from Roadrace engineering and a SS flex pipe on E bay for $20. I used the factory turbo flange but ported it.
Parts source
By using the factory turbo flange i can run the pulse air system (SAS) for emmisions and it mounts the o2 sensor. I used 308 filler wire and a tri mix gas on my mig for the SS welds. Getting good looking welds was a challenge. Stainless does not weld as easily as mild steel.
The starion converter will get you on the road but the custom down pipe gets you a faster spoolup and more hp. It also saves 4 lbs and the access to the flange bolts is a lot better than with the starion part.
 I turned the flanges in the lath to make a thinner section to weld to. I machined the other sides of the flanges in a lathe and they are flat enough that I dont need a gasket to get a good seal.
Image of the stock housing after porting.
The pipe bend is an 80º angle. Roadrace says its a 72º angle but dont believe them. Either way it fits better than
a 90º bend.
Kevin C
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Re: No Spark Problem
While working on figuring out [new] my no spark problem, I found this info on the StarQuestClub.com site. Much of it has been posted to my [current] "Need Help" thread (thanks to all), but there is also some new stuff too. Thought I'd add it to here...
I just went through this myself on an 88 Starion. Since you have power to the coil, you should check the power to the igniter (knock) box that sits on the wheel well behind the coil. It's on a different circuit than the coil. The red wire should have 12 volts. If it does, and you have no spark, it could be your ignitor box or the distributor. Put a voltmeter across the magnetic pickup leads at the ignitor connector from the distributor (b, w), and see that you're getting a trigger voltage when you crank the engine. If you don't, distributor is bad. If you do, ignitor is probably bad.
If you don't have 12 volts, then check the orange fusible link first. If the fusible link is okay, then check the red wire at both the MAF and Wastegate solenoid for 12 volts. If all three are dead, then the whole ignition circuit is dead and the next item to check is the ECI solenoid relay next to the ECI computer under the glove box inside the car. To trouble shoot it, you'll need a schematic.
Also check your grounds. There are two that are notorious for corrosion. On the drivers side of the engine block, below the compressor is the first one, and the second on is under the battery tray where the ground cable connects to the body. Then there's the positive cable junction where the hot side cables all come together, and you should also take apart the black connecter off the white cable that houses a fusible link. All of those contact points have to be clean and corrosion free to get the right voltages.
Here's another post that was in response to one I made on SQC:
Do you have +12volts on one end of the coil? The ignitor (knock box) grounds the other post to fire the ignition. The distributor has a simple wire coil inside it (pick-up coil) that can be replaced easily. If you open up the round connector from the distributor you can ohmmeter the two wires for continuity; a good pick-up coil reads about 1000 ohms. Wiggle the wires as you test; sometimes they fail right at the distributor body.
If that's okay, and you know the ignition coil is okay, then likely the knock box itself has crapped out. The black plastic ones (used on 84-87 cars) is fairly notorious for this. The metal boxed ones on later cars seems to be much more reliable. Roll up a napkin and wedge it between the fender and the connector on your 87 box - so that it flexes the connector a bit - and see if your truck magically starts. The failure is a wire that fatigues and no longer makes connections... but flexing the outer connector sometimes will "line it up" enough.
Also, here's a thread I started here just a short while back that I ressurected for this problem. It has some good stuff in it Look towards the later posts with dates consistent with this post. Thread
Edited by MontyMcV (01/12/05 10:16 PM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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There is a better turbo option than the starion/conquest, and with much better aftermarket support. Another turbo engine made by Mitsubishi is the 2.0L found in the Eclipse. While the 2.6L can make a lot of power, it just can't compare to the numbers put down by the 2.0L turbo. 400HP is possible from a stock engine, and also quite reliable compared to the 2.6L. The 4g63 is the direct descendent of the 2.0L found in Mitsubishi trucks also known as the G63B. The 2.0L truck transmissions are not very strong though, only 2WD, and a different bolt pattern.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel however. The 4g63 has a brother engine the 4g64 2.4L found in late Mitsubishi trucks. The 4g64 replaced the aging G54B 2.6L engine, complete with matching bellhousings. The secret is that the 4g64 is nearly identical to the 4g63, in design and strength. The 4g63 turbo head is a straightforward swap onto the 4g64 block- timing components and all. The only requirements are custom rods and pistons, and oil squirters if you desire. If stock is not enough, there is a huge aftermarket that supplies the DSM (Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser) world.
Want more options? The 4g63 is capable of 9,000 RPM, but a destroked 4g64 with a 4g63 crankshaft is capable of 10,000+ RPM. Like the 4g63 but not the 4g64? The G63B did exist in a "wide block" form with a bellhousing that matched the G54B bellhousing, but in limited quantities. They can be found in 86-89 2.0L automatic pickups in the US, and 2.0L Starions in Japan and Australia through JDM importers. The bellhousing measures 13.25" across the lower bellhousing bolts compared to 12.25". Another thing to watch for is that all engines have 6 bolts holding the crankshaft to the flywheel, not 7. 6 bolt engines are stronger, and don't get crankwalk, a common problem found in 7 bolt engines. Want all the torque you can get? It is possible to stroke a G63B with a G64B/4G64 crankshaft to 2.3L, but a 7500 RPM rev limiter is a good idea.
A list of different Mitsubishi engines and where to find them.
Edited by Meursault (01/29/05 08:23 PM)
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Good stuff. But what's the low end torque? How much power starts coming on when? It would take a pretty big ass hill to need 9k RPMs. 
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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That all depends on your setup: like turbo size, cams, compression ratio, etc.
Stock the 2.0L would have about 203 ft/lbs around 3000 RPM and 195 HP around 6000RPM. You can derive some rough estimates for the rest of the engines since all four use the same head as the 2.0L. I would expect both values to go up as displacement rises, but about the same HP for the stroker and the same torque for the destroker.
Also, the stock turbo really kicks in at about 3000-3500 RPM and pulls all the way to 6000 RPM at WOT.
Edited by Meursault (01/24/05 02:58 PM)
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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The long stroke of a 2.6 makes a great truck engine and typicly a two valve heads produces peak torque at a lower RPM.
So for a 4WD the 2.6 with a turbo is a decent match. Natural low RPM tq and a turbo to get you up hills.
I looked at the 2.0 stroker conversion about a year and a half ago but decided to stay with my current setup. This was based on already having the 2.6 turbo and it works very well with a huge amount of TQ (230 to 270 ftlbs) for a 4 cyl.
If I was starting over the 2.0 - 2.4 motor would get a stronger consideration. A big advantage is it came stock with TPI and 1 injectors per cyl.
The 2.0 stroker is a legal (looking) way i can get TPI in california. If i convert my 2.6 to a magna intake... its a huge deal to get smogged.
Smog check cant tell if I have a stroker crank.
My experiance says I dont need a high RPM motor. For normal driving getting above 4000 rpm is rare. With a stock cam the 2.6 will pull to 6000 no problem and makes decent power to 5700.
Perhaps my next motor will be a 4 valve..... You never know. Right now it runs and there is no strong reason to change.
Kevin
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87 Raider, 2.6 Turbo-Intercooled, lockup auto tranny, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, 2.85 T case, LSD front diff, Torsen rear diff, V6 brakes and front axles, Dual suspension seats = lots of fun.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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By all means stick with what works, but if the time comes, there are more options available. I personally just finished dropping a 6 bolt 4g64 into my Mighty Max street truck along with a performance clutch. On my next break from school I'm looking to make my rear end LSD, and later a turbo swap.
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Quote:
You can derive some rough estimates for the rest of the engines since all four use the same head as the 2.0L.
Are you saying that the G54B is in the "all four" group?
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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2.0L + 2.1L + 2.3L + 2.4L = 4 :)
What I mean is that you could apply some general engine knowledge to get a rough idea of where each stands. There hasn't been a great following of people to put these engines in other cars, and most stick with the 2.0L for that reason. Basically it means there isn't the kind of documentation you're asking for about power curves and such. What information that is out there is usually already highly modified with a huge turbo, aggressive cams, and so forth. What I am telling you is where the 2.0L stands and where the other engines stand in relation to it.
2.0L Power is mid range and well rounded. Not much to talk about on the low end, and falls off past 6 grand.
2.1L Power is all on the high end, meant for very large turbos requiring long spool times that need the extra RPM. Low end torque is relatively the same or less than the 2.0L.
2.3L An excellent street engine with plenty of low end torque, but sacrifices made in the high end, and lower red line.
2.4L With the most displacement, this provides more than enough torque and the quickest turbo spool.
Any kind of numbers would be a guess.
The G54B is a good engine, but many especially in the Starion/Conquest community envy the 4G63, and are tired of constant problems that arise when seriously modifying the 2.6L.
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OKRED
Rock Warrior
Reged: 10/12/03
Posts: 578
Loc: SoCal
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No it's not in the all four group which explains our limitations on fuel options. We are stuck with a head that won't bolt up to MPI without one off fabrication or a magna manifold swap. I am struggling with this right now, very unimpressed with the two injector setup. 
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A brand spankin new 1973 series 3 Landy
OLIVE DRAB SWB, TURBO, IN ABOUT 36 PIECES
89 TROOPER, RESCUED FROM THE YARDS. (Down again)
05 TACOMA CREW SHORTY.
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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This is a revision of the B-38 wiring splices to graft the Starion harness to the Monty wiring, changed to include the idle up signal for a/c on operation. The latest change is in blue.
The B-38 connector is the graft point for the starion system into the Monty. It's on the Starion harness, and I think it lives in the Starion under the glove box, but the manuals on cd I have (88 Conquest) are missing the harness layout pages 8-36 and 8-37 (and I'd love to have a scanned copy at the best resolution you've got of those!). I do have the circuit diagrams, and here's the basic wiring you need to do. All wire color codes reference the ecu side of the B-38 connector, a male 14 pole connector. L is blue, B is black, Lg is light green and the others are evident. First letter of the color code is main wire color, second is color of tracer stripe(s)The number is the mm2 cross sectional area of the wire - bigger is fatter, no # is 1mm2 xsect. area. Orient the plug so the L (blue) wire is at the center top position. That's #4. Number l>r and t>b.
1 not used
2 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
3 1.25-B Necessary - wire to Batt. + with fuse protection
4 2-L Necessary - wire to ign sw. On position 12v+
5 not used
6 RB necessary?? - wire to Batt 12v+ w/ fuse = amps of SQ multipurpose fuse
7 BW - ac on signal for idle up - wire to compressor power wire or any wire that's hot when a/c is on
8 (first of bottom row) LgB not needed - used in SQ for faking the boost pressure on the LED gauge
9 YG optional but nice to have - wire to Monty speedo reed switch circuit*
10 not used
11 2-BY Necessary - wire to ign switch start position 12V+
12 BR nice to have - trouble code output - wire a jumper wire to put it in reach, and use a voltmeter to read the trouble codes (all 6 of them)
13 not used
14 not used
If you can when you get the donor stuff, get about 6" of the hrness and the other half of the B-38 connector, so you have a plain butt splice. The old Monty carb ecu connector will have many of the various 12v+ inputs you need. Consult your Monty manual for the pin out, and you can use the ecu harness side of that connector with a few inches of wire to make the butt splices to the 6" of wire on the female half of the B-38 connector noted above.
* Try getting a pulsed 12v signal on the yellow wire at the 4wd indocator light relay box on the C-28 connector at the box on the passenger side footwell wall or the C-6 connector at the rear of the instrument cluster (on an 87 Monty) for this connection.
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87Montero
Trail Leader
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 5141
Loc: Greenville, SC
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One more thing to add to my long list of junk to do on that Montero.
Thanks Eddy.
Brendan
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'92 Isuzu Pickup: V6,4x4,5spd,TJM Bumper,9k Winch.
'07 Corolla S
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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thank Roll Me over, too. He promted me to look at something I never considered, because my air died just after the turbo conversion, and a/c idle never became a problem, just excess interior humidity from my sweat...
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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StarionGTO
Wheeler
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Boulder Creek, California
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Back from the depths of reality and other more pressing automotive projects with a years worth of experience with the turbo swap.
When I first did the swap I stuck with the completely stock 88 Montero bottom end and just dropped a Starion head on it but didn't use an intercooler. Running 7 psi on 91 octane things were good unless the weather turned warm or I stayed in the turbo too long, then I started having detonation problems between 3 inches vaccum and 1 psi. Growing tired of dancing around this throttle range, I swapped motors with my 87 Starion. My Starion's motor has been worked over so I drove around running 15 psi on the thing with 91 octane, still non-IC'd, without a care in the world until I noticed how little gas milage I was getting. Swapped the motors once more, so the Starion motor is in the Starion and the Monty motor is in the Monty. Re-gained my lost 3-4mpg as well as my detonation problems.
Long story short: If you're going turbo, make sure you have an intercooler to go with it.
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'87 Mitsubishi L300
'87 Chrysler Conquest TSi
'93 Honda CRX - AWD Stage Rally Project
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Intercooler YES!
Cooler air is denser = more air to the cylinder.
Cooler air keeps the fuel/air further below the dreaded autoignition point.
I plan to go one step further, with an a/c refrigerant chilled water/air intercooler.
AC tech wizard help needed here. Can't I set up the a/c compressor to cycle to charge and accumulator, which bleeds freon to the intercooler refrigerant heat exchanger core in the water jacket of the h20 i/c on demand from a 34*F control (type?). AC compressor cycles on demand from a pressure switch (??) in the accumulator. Check vavle in feed to accumulator from compressor. Need some kind of switched isolation of cabin evaporator from freon pressurization for i/c cycling (electrovalves for ac available??). One minor advantage is the elimination of the absolute requirement for an auxillary water cooling circuit (thermoswitch, aux radiator, pump, plumbing). Might be nice to have for backup if the ac quit, though...
I guess you could even use another refrigerant heat exchanger in the radiator bottom tank that only kicks in when you have an overheat, kind of a boosted cooling system. Couldn't run it all the time, because it would probably cook itself on waste heat from inefficiecy, but for short shots to save the head or mountain pass 65mph blasts with the 3k lb. boat behind you......
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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Even without the wizardry Eddie's talking about (some damn fine thoughts by the way), the 86-89 Starion engines were designed to run with IC and I can personally vouch for the fact that the engine will run better with it than without.
The cooler itself will fit neatly behind the front skid plate and a V6 ventilated plate is recommended. As soon as I find one in a yard, I'll change over. Gotta love a bolt-up mod.
Piping a stock Starion IC (in its stock configuration) is a real PITA, but it can be done. I know. A better plan is to alter those cursed cross pipes to have an outlet on either side so you can utilize some of the space on the LH (driver's) side of the engine compartment. Forced Air Montero, KevinC and, I believe, Monty McV have done this and probably had far fewer fits of using swear words during installation than I. And, let's not forget hard piping. That'll get that air flowing freely.
The real problem arises in trying to stuff the air can (and related hoses and tubes), turbo (and related piping), oil cooler hoses and everything else into the relatively small space on the RH side of the engine compartment. - AND you still need to get to the oil filter and dip stick.
But, not to get too far off topic, your engine will love you - and reward you handsomely - for using the intercooler.
Ed
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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My I/C still routes both pipes to the PS, but I did have the outlet pipes on the I/C repositioned for their "aim" a little.
Ed is right on cramming all into the left side of the engine bay. Mine do all fit, barely. The one thing I will be doing is moving the charcoal cannister over to the DS fenderwall where there is more room.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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Lester
Mudrunner
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Singapore
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Hi Eddy and the rest of the Turbo guys
I have a little question here. I understand that an A/T Starion engine 89' can be swapped into the Pajero 89' to use with my Pajero M/T, right? I won't be facing any problem, right? If that is correct, then I'll need to use back my Pajero flywheel, pressure plate and clutch? If I were to use back the Pajero transmission items, will fitting a 240mm clutch plate and pressure plate be better? How different is the stock heavy duty Pajero pressure plate, clutch plate from the 240mm available from TEP? Thanks in advance for the help.
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Lester's Monstero Gallery
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Oyaji_Jon
Roll Me Over
Reged: 11/01/01
Posts: 2957
Loc: Pebble Beach, CA
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In prep for my upcoming turbo swap, I had a starion pressure plate, clutch and flywheel put into my '89 MT Raider. With the stock carb'd engine, engine response is noticibly slower and engaging the clutch takes more wind out of it's sails than with the smaller NA flywheel. The advantage, I hope, is that the clutch will grab better once I get the turbo swap done.
In short, I didn't experience any problems with the larger flywheel. Just a tradeoff.
HTH
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73
-Jon
KJ6GVM
2008 e - Soccer Mom-mobile
1990 Trooper - 2.6L, MT, AMC head, houlster's old header, Delta RV cam, front Lock-rite
1974 FJ40
1987 FJ60
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MitsuTSi
Need a Spot
Reged: 10/26/05
Posts: 19
Loc: North Florida
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Hey, I am just wondering if someone can explain why to use the Montero oil pump, instead of the Starion pump? I would think that if they are different, than the Starion one would be better since it has more oil to run to the turbo and thru the oil cooler.
Does it not fit with the Montero oil pan?
I am planning on doing this swap very soon since my 95 Talon was just totaled 3 nights ago.
Also I am wondering if anyone knows if it would be possible to use a fuel pump from a 95 Talon turbo for the swap.
Thanks for any input. -Garrett.
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Garrett
90 Mont 3.0 4x4
86 Mont 2.6 4x4
95 Eclipse 2.0 TSi(Totaled, oops)
88 StarQuest 2.6 TSi
www.wakullariverhomes.com
Keep It Shiney-Side Up!
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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The oil pan and pickup are different for the Montero. The pan has to clear the front wheel drive, axle, etc. the oil pump is different to accomodate the pick up.
I would think that if the Talon fuel pump delivers the same or better flow than the SQ or the others that are suggested above, you'd be fine.
If you have a wrecked 2.0 TSI, there are also posts and thoughts about the 2.4L. I'm sure you've read about how the 2.0 head, and related turbo gear can be fitted to the Mitsu 2.4L. That 2.4L block was also used in the pick-up trucks, which were supposed to have the same trannies as the Monteros. So if A=B and B=C...
AFIK, no one has done this yet here. So, we're looking for a first. Try searching, and including user Kevin C for more info.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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Lester
Mudrunner
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Singapore
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Hello all
Thanks for the help in getting this bible together. I've got many tips from this. 2 more things that I can't solve to date.
-Under boost, I've got fuel smell coming into the cabin. I've done a throttle body rebuilt and all fuel hoses are clamped tight. I'm scratching my head where the smell is coming from when under boost.
-When the vehicle is fully warmed up and idling, with the a/c compressor off, the idling speed will pulsate around the 1100 - 1200rpm region. Under cold start without the a/c compressor cutting in, it reads about 900rpm. With the a/c compressor on, it about 950 - 1000rpm. I've done the ISC and TPS reset. that didn't work. Where else should I look?
Thanks in advance for the help.
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Lester's Monstero Gallery
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StarionGTO
Wheeler
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Boulder Creek, California
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Quote:
-Under boost, I've got fuel smell coming into the cabin. I've done a throttle body rebuilt and all fuel hoses are clamped tight. I'm scratching my head where the smell is coming from when under boost.
If your TB rebuild included replacing all the injector seals then I'd venture to guess you have a vacuum leak somewhere, if you haven't changed the injector seals I'd check those first, top and bottom. Having been 6 months you've probably already solved this one, but I figgured someone else might run into this issue.
20k since I put the Monty together and its still running reliably on a 205k original short block, though I still had detonation issues on warm days even with the IC. Turns out the fuel map leans out between 10 in/hg. and 0 pressure. It wasn't consistant nor a real serious problem, but at times it was enough to trip the knock sensor and kill the timing curve. My solution was to run a mass airflow sensor out of a first generation Eclipse GSX or GST. They're calibrated a bit differently and cause the Starion ECU to run a bit more on the rich side. I've found the difference to be a loss of about 1.5 mpg, bringing my average mpg down to 15.5.
I never really liked the idea of mounting the IC down behind a vented skid plate, it didn't seem like a location with very good air flow. I had removed my A/C condensor since I turned the A/C compressor into an air compressor, so I inverted the starion's IC and mounted it where the condensor used to be. With that location and using a flex fan the IC sees more than enough air flow to keep things cool with no heat soak from the radiator.
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'87 Mitsubishi L300
'87 Chrysler Conquest TSi
'93 Honda CRX - AWD Stage Rally Project
Edited by StarionGTO (11/09/06 11:07 PM)
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OldColt
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 09/19/06
Posts: 2187
Loc: East Wallyworld Vermont
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I use the Starion oil pump with a modified pickup tube to fit the Montero sump. I also use the Starion pump on all the 2.6 engines I build turbo or not, they are a better pump.
Most of these swaps use an external fuel pump and your DSM pump is for an in tank setup. They do not have a sealed case.
I use Bosch pumps for these swaps but Starion pump will do too.
I also flair the ends of the Montero fuel line and use the original hose sections from a Starion for the pressure line to the front
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Cheers, Charlie
If It ain't broke, Modify it!
87 Montero turbo Converted back in 1989
95 Montero SR 3.8 DOHC First one?
Will a 94 Macrocab turbocharged with a 6 speed be next?
ffmsd.com
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Old-Colt
http://6g72rwd.forumcircle.com
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Lester
Mudrunner
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Singapore
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Hello all
Here's my setup:
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4
Pic 5
Pic 6
Pic 7
Pic 8
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Lester's Monstero Gallery
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airbats801
Wheeler
Reged: 12/01/06
Posts: 185
Loc: portland, or
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Might as well chime in on a little something I found incorrect throughout this topic.
You guys have the injector sizes wrong.
After some flow tests the 84-86 injectors actually flow 850cc
In 1987 the went to a primary secondary setup instead of the back and forth setup they had before.
The primary on a 87+ is 550cc, and the secondary is 1025cc.
A decent little upgrade for 87+ cars to remove boost cut, and increase engine response a bit is to add a 1g eclipse turbo MAS.
86 widebodied starions were a ugly duckling of sorts. even with the 10,000k potenthisizer you still cant get past the 15lbs boost cut. It is possible to adapt a 1g mas to the 86 but it requires blocking off some of the unmetered air on the mas. It's a real pain in the butt, but does yeild good results.
I see a lot of people recommending 2,5inch exhaust. Personally, I would go 3. I have had no drawbacks, and dyno numbers seem to prove 3inch is the way to go. The whole key to a turbo setup is to have the backpressure on the exhaust side of the turbo less than the manifold side. if you are vise versa, then you are losing power. I've personally ran both, and must say the 3inch tends to breath a bit better up top. even on a slightly modded car.
there is a faq on starquestclub.com to upgrade the ignitor on a 86, and 87 to the better 88-89 box.
Get rid of the balance shafts to make a more reliable and responsive engine.
As for piston choices. THere are guys putting at least 334rwhp and roughly 387ftlbs of torque to the wheel on stockpistons, so I really dont see the need to go with forged for most applications.
The best aftermarket head is no a clearwater, or alabama, but a MARNEL head cast in spain. They will hold up to overheatings over and over without cracking. They also flow about 30cfm more than a stock head. Your other choice is to get a australian Manga head with a casting of I believe m8 or higher. For na, they also had a kidney based head on the last gen 4g54 made in australia. This would be a good canidate for a high comp na engine.
if you have the money, do yourself a favor and go with a magna mpi converted turbo g54b. You basically get about more hp off a stock starion setup, and 10x the throttle response, efficiency etc... You could easily lay down 300ftlbs of torque to the wheels with a stock starion turbo and mpi.
I saw some mention of a 4g63 and 4g64, they are great engines, but in the engine any turbo dohc setup will not yeild the low end of a starion. The big ol 2.6 is just as capabale as any of the other engines out there. We all know it comes down to money. There is no reliablity issues with a 2.6turbo engine running a marnel head. I've ran an entire drift season with my old 87 conquest with an 18g revving up to 8000rpms on a stock g54b bottom end with bsek. Overheated it many times and it still runs fine :)
With that being said, the 4g64 would be the next best turbo swap. If you can find a wideblock 4g64 out of a mitsubishi box van, or some early mighty max trucks, they will be wideblock, which uses the same bolt pattern as a starion g54b. After it is all said and done, you will be looking at at least the same chunk of change it would cost to swap in a starion mpi setup.
I've questioned using a na oil pump on a turbo engine, but if you guys are running them without any problems, that solves one of my problems :)
here are some dyno sheets of modded engines to get you an idea of what mods are gonna give you what powerband on a g54b.
http://www.starquestclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8890
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89 cordia turbo, 88 starion, 87 mitsubishi van, , 81 galant g54bt, 78 lancer g54bt
87 swb montero offroad pkg goin g54bt with sr locker 33x12.5 dual bouncy.
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metalfaced
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Sudbury, Ontario
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hi,
I am having trouble finding encouragement to swap in a diesel 4d56t into my 86 montero, so I am considering other options. I found the entire head+top end off a starion including intake throttle body turbo and intercooler - can this be used on the stock montero engine? is this way too much of a pain, or has anyone done this? looks like a bolt on, but I am a bit optimistic. Cheers!
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1986 SWB Montero
1987 SWB Raider
1987 SWB Raider [Parts Vehicle]
1988 LWB Pajero 5speed LHD! [German]
1992 Delica 4D56T 7 pass kidmobile
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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Go back in this topic and you'll see discussions of the oil squirters under the pistons on a Starion block. They are not there on a Montero block, but they can be installed - if you can find them.
If you choose to go with the "Montero block" option, you'll need to limit your boost pressure. I believe the concensus was about 5-6 lbs.
Obviously, a Starion block is preferable.
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JAVYPRO
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 02/04/01
Posts: 1688
Loc: Buford, GA USA
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It is Turbo time!!!
I am officially in search of an engine+computer and all of the others. I know that it is better to find a complete donor but that is a little steep to come by, so if I can get the engine that include all of it's attachments (intake, ignition, turbo etc...) I will jump on it. I don't care if the head is bad, I am planning on rebuilding it anyways and start fresh.
I am surfing around the Starquest forum to see what I can find but if any of you GA locals come across a good deal let me know. I am currently checking two local donors to see if they are good candidates.
Javy
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88 red Montero with the Dakar Special Edition decals, 411,000 miles some occational blue puffing but still strong and counting!!! Turbo project coming up...
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I found a potential donor the other day. I'll dig into back notes and see where and ph#. 87 model, but the upgrade is easy.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87Montero
Trail Leader
Reged: 11/19/03
Posts: 5141
Loc: Greenville, SC
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Although my motor is running awesome, I am still in need of a unhacked wiring harness(for a good price) if anyone knows of one..
Can anyone show a picture of what they did with all the charcoal canister lines that go up to the front? I currently do not have them hooked up to anything, and that isn't good. One is a gas tank vent, right? 
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'92 Isuzu Pickup: V6,4x4,5spd,TJM Bumper,9k Winch.
'07 Corolla S
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Lester
Mudrunner
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Singapore
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Turbo swap update from Singapore.
Recap: 88' MT LWB Pajero with 89 AT Starion engine swap, 33x12.5x16 GT Radial Adventuro MT.
Recently my TD05-12A seized. Lucky for a spare, I made it run again. I ordered a brand new TD05H CHRA with turbine wheel and the 16G compressor wheel with the TD05H repair. Basically a whole new mid section. I brought the compressor housing and turbine housing to the machinist to machine them to fit the new setup. I was very afraid the TD05-12A compressor housing wouldn't be able to accept the 16G wheel. It turned out very well. The compressor inlet was almost 10mm larger and the turbine housing was about 1mm larger. The end result is very very sweet. The Pajero feels very light and very much alive. No lag experienced so far. I would recommend all who have plans to change for a larger turbo to do it via this route.
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Lester's Monstero Gallery
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Hoppy_27
Need a Spot
Reged: 07/15/07
Posts: 6
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MORON
Edited by little_joe (07/22/07 08:24 AM)
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hazy_daze
Roll Me Over
Reged: 05/22/07
Posts: 3824
Loc: Athens, Georgia
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moron?
moron
Edited by little_joe (07/22/07 08:26 AM)
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Hoppy_27
Need a Spot
Reged: 07/15/07
Posts: 6
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MORON
MORON
Edited by little_joe (07/22/07 08:24 AM)
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hazy_daze
Roll Me Over
Reged: 05/22/07
Posts: 3824
Loc: Athens, Georgia
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Like I said, a moron.
Edited by little_joe (07/22/07 08:25 AM)
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StockRaider
Roll Me Over
Reged: 09/23/04
Posts: 3766
Loc: Williamsport PA
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Edit: I will take LR's advice and clean up my post. Feel free to delete my post since it doesn't have anything to do with the Turbo conversion bible.
Great read though!
Edited by StockRaider (07/20/07 11:02 PM)
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LandRaider
Forum Moderator
Reged: 09/04/01
Posts: 7591
Loc: Ocean Springs, MS
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I would suggest you stop your offensive behaviour. Phil will be along shortly to clean this mess up.
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87 Raider 4.3 700R4 NP231CHD
Solid Axles, Selectable Lockers, 36's
87 Raider 4D56td v5MT1
Almost all stock.
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Lester
Mudrunner
Reged: 01/02/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Singapore
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Just an update. I just tightened my wastegate actuator today and I am officially on 1 bar of boost with the s16G! Woo- Hoo!!!
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Lester's Monstero Gallery
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spxfun
Need a Spot
Reged: 04/01/08
Posts: 2
Loc: new mexico
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well that is just awesome to know that i am not the only person with a play truck. i too have a mighty max with a starion or conquest engine in it. it is a great deal of fun isnt it? mine was done the year after the truck was purchased in 1985. but none the less i have a pickup that no one suspects for a tire killing machine. i have fun.
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spxfun
Need a Spot
Reged: 04/01/08
Posts: 2
Loc: new mexico
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also for any one that needs info or help let me know. i also have a spare engine and an intercooler and such. and it is not hard to pull around 400 ponies out of the ol mitsubishi motor either. the 2.6 was the building block for the lancer evolution. so there are plenty of options. hp performance is on that deals more with starion/ conquest engines. and yes the 88-89 is the best more because of the computer than the engine. either way you slice it its an awesome idea. my truck was built the 1st time by ken ellis sr. awesome ol boy that knows what he is doing.
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StarionGTO
Wheeler
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Boulder Creek, California
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Seems this would be appropriate information for this thread since now that we've got all this new found power in our rigs...
What all are we using for transmissions and what issues 'n fixes have we found?
I've seen one thread talk about the manuals puking input shaft bearings on a regular basis and another thread talk about using different torque converters in the autos to reduce slippage and heat...
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'87 Mitsubishi L300
'87 Chrysler Conquest TSi
'93 Honda CRX - AWD Stage Rally Project
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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First m/t: non-rebuilt 85pu tranny behind the 85 conquest engine at stock boost. Tranny got a little noisy and shifter got real sloppy, and floppy under on/off the gas. Cruising fairly level highway, and tranny blew in 5th. Lost all gears but 4th. Parked it. Tranny had pounded out a mainshaft spacer, letting main shaft walk fore and aft, and it ate the inputshaft/mainshaft bearings, and mainshaft became so sloppy you couldn't get an indirect gear engaged. I am told that you can use the tranny internals from an 88-89 starquest to beef up the m/t with good success, but I don't offhand know of anybody who's actually done it. I never did it because the a/t turned out to be so much better for me...
Swapped motor into 87swb a/t nonlockup. Worked just fine, and the only problem was when I broke the oil pump gear in the tranny by not socking the converter in all the way before I mated the motor. Me dumb. Rebuild horror story. Me dumb again. Bought jy tranny and tcase for $300 and installed same. ran fine til I blew the motor, some 50k+ miles. needed a lockup converter tranny from a 90-91 v6 to be perfect. I think the lockup a/t is perfect for the turbo motor in the truck. You use the whole v6 tranny with the 4cyl bellhousing.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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Quote:
I am told that you can use the tranny internals from an 88-89 starquest to beef up the m/t with good success, but I don't offhand know of anybody who's actually done it.
I had to have my M/T rebuilt shortly after getting the turbo engine running correctly. I spec'ed Starion replacement hardware and paid someone else to install. It's held up fine so far.
Couple of caveats: First, the tranny guy may not have sourced what I spec'ed, but I suspect he did - truthful sort.
Second, I don't drive it like I'm going to put out a fire most of the time.
I got 190,000+ miles out of the original M/T.
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Quote:
The B-38 connector is the graft point for the starion system into the Monty. It's on the Starion harness, and I think it lives in the Starion under the glove box, but the manuals on cd I have (88 Conquest) are missing the harness layout pages 8-36 and 8-37 (and I'd love to have a scanned copy at the best resolution you've got of those!).
This is quoted from way back at the beginning of the thread. Note that the 88 Conquest FSM I have is also missing those pages.
However, the 88 Starion FSM does have pages 8-36 and 8-37. Kind of old news maybe, but thought I'd update nonetheless.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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The ecu harness side of the 87 b38 connector (10 slot, 5x5) connections are as follows, catch up, 1-5 top row, 6-10 bottom row: (the number, like 2 or 1.25, in front of the letter color code are the xsect area of the conductor, the bigger the fatter)
1> empty and not used
2> 2BY (fat black yellow stripe #2) ground this terminal for m/t and wire to NSS in a/t
3> 1.25B (med fat black) constant 12v+ from battery
4> 2L (fat blue) wire to 12v+ ign. on
5> epmty and not used
6> LgB (Light Green with black stripe avg size) nice but not necessary - can hook to reed switch in speedo or 4wd light controller end of same wire
7> YG (yellow green stripe) not used in transplant-fake boost gauge wire
8> empty and not used
9> 2BY (fat black yellow stripe #1) wire to 12v+ ign start position
10> BR (avg black with red stripe) ecu codes output wire - extend to within easy inside the cab reach and read with a circuit tester light for codes 1 to 6.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87Raider_TSI
Wheeler
Reged: 12/22/06
Posts: 233
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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Don't know if this will help anyone, but I got sick of looking at the 3 pages of spaghetti in the service manual so I drew this up and printed it out for reference when I wired up my truck. I'm pretty sure it's correct (my trucks runs ) but I'll make changes if anyone finds an error.
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'87 Raider SWB 2.6T/5 spd - Boxy and boosted.
'88 Conquest TSI - MPI and lots of other mods
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Jamez
Rock Warrior
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 504
Loc: Tulsa, Ok
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Would it be possible to use a stock n/a 2.6? I've read through the parts list and it sounds like its not all that complicated if you could just stick the turbo parts on the n/a block and go. I've done an OEM FI swap before and have also plumbed an intercooler so it would definately have that. Not looking to make beyond stock HP, just want some decent power for daily driving. Would probably never see peak hp/rpm anyways.
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'87 Raider w/rebuilt 2.6
Weber 32/36
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Stock NA does not have the oil squirters that the turbo block has. They can be added (Kevin C did to one of his), but the squirters themselves are hard to find they say.
The CR is also less on the turbo. (Think I got that one right...?)
The NA block does have the boss to bolt the knock sensor to.
Opinions of those more knowledgeable is that the pre 88-89 stock boost at 7PSI would be pushing it.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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StarionGTO
Wheeler
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Boulder Creek, California
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When I first did my swap I used the bone stock NA 2.6 bottom end. No oil squirters and 8:1 pistons. Ran 7psi and had minor to moderate detonation issues comming on positive pressure, between 0 and 2-3psi, and climbing long hills.
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'87 Mitsubishi L300
'87 Chrysler Conquest TSi
'93 Honda CRX - AWD Stage Rally Project
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Jamez
Rock Warrior
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 504
Loc: Tulsa, Ok
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Quote:
When I first did my swap I used the bone stock NA 2.6 bottom end. No oil squirters and 8:1 pistons. Ran 7psi and had minor to moderate detonation issues comming on positive pressure, between 0 and 2-3psi, and climbing long hills.
Any clue whether this was CR related, gas, or maybe an electrical/mechanical problem? Is 7psi stock? I may have a lead on the swap parts close to me. Anyone else used a truck engine for this?
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'87 Raider w/rebuilt 2.6
Weber 32/36
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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I assume you still put the detonation sensor on the block? In which case, the ECU would have adjusted as needed, just more often vs. turbo block?
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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There is only so much retard available from the knock box and det sensor. If you use a stock CR of 8.7 for a carb block, and 7.0 for the turbo motor, that's an increase of almost 25% in CR.
If you look at it another way (and somewhat simplisticly), at 7psi of boost and it's effect on effective CR, that's about 1.5 x 8.7, or 13.5ish to 1, and you're past the detonstion limit of pump gas, so it takes a hammer to the pistons and ring lands, regardless of the amount of spark retard you throw at it.
Youjust might get away with that CR on a better breathing 4 valve head like a 4G63T motor with a better pent roof combustions chamber, but the 2.6 just won't take it without some addons, like water injection.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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Jamez
Rock Warrior
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 504
Loc: Tulsa, Ok
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Well SOB, so on a truck engine even with highest octane pump gas (91-93), you're screwed?
I've done an N/A to boost swap before, but there wasn't that much difference in CR so it wasn't an issue.
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'87 Raider w/rebuilt 2.6
Weber 32/36
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I think it's been done, but I wouldn't. Too risky. I think you can probably get by without the oil squirters if you have to, but I'd at least buy a set of os stock starion pistons.
IIRC, I had to shorten the pickup tube on the starion pump when I used it in a d50, but I think the engine positions vs. the front axle are diff between monty and pickup.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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1986powerram50
Rock Warrior
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 926
Loc: Kansas
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Theres for sure a difference between the 2wd and 4x4 D50 pick up tubes, due to were the steering cross arm goes across the pan at for steering. Never dealt with a Montero or Starion yet, keep waiting for the right/cheap one.
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--keRby
Ad Inexplorta
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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Quote:
Well SOB, so on a truck engine even with highest octane pump gas (91-93), you're screwed?
I've done an N/A to boost swap before, but there wasn't that much difference in CR so it wasn't an issue.
I ran 8.7 to 1 CR pistons with a stock Starion turbo system and got that same light part throttle detonation. I found that the primary spring on the advance weights on the Starion distributor was super light allowing a lot of mechanical advance at a low RPM range.
By swapping in the springs from the carb motors distributor I was able to slow the advance curve so that I did not get the part throttle detonation.
Kevin
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87 Raider, 2.6 Turbo-Intercooled, lockup auto tranny, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, 2.85 T case, LSD front diff, Torsen rear diff, V6 brakes and front axles, Dual suspension seats = lots of fun.
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Jamez
Rock Warrior
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 504
Loc: Tulsa, Ok
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So you're sayin theres a chance 
I'm going to see how cheap I can get the turbo parts for and probably go ahead and try this. I'm assuming everyone with the turbo runs high octane? Anything aside from whats in this thread that I need to know about the truck longlock turbo swap?
PS
I will make sure to have a decent IC setup to minimize intake temps as well.
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'87 Raider w/rebuilt 2.6
Weber 32/36
Edited by Jamez (03/03/09 01:36 PM)
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Quote:
I ran 8.7 to 1 CR pistons with a stock Starion turbo system and got that same light part throttle detonation. I found that the primary spring on the advance weights on the Starion distributor was super light allowing a lot of mechanical advance at a low RPM range.
By swapping in the springs from the carb motors distributor I was able to slow the advance curve so that I did not get the part throttle detonation.
Kevin
You crack me up. Damn I wish we were in the same area. Then I could bring over beers and hang out in your garage...
(Don't anyone be reading into that. We're both married. )
Jamez: I run cheap gas myself. I don't think the Quest calls for premium. A assume the lower CR offsets.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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hazy_daze
Roll Me Over
Reged: 05/22/07
Posts: 3824
Loc: Athens, Georgia
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Quote:
(Don't anyone be reading into that. We're both married. )
To women? 
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91 Montero Auto engine rebuild in progress
285/75R16 Muds
Bilsteins
Dual BoUnCiEs
SR locker, coils & brakes
3" Roger Brown BL
Aisins
Sway bar delete front and rear
Custom "Officer Phil" rock sliders
Electric fan
Tank/Frame lift
Gen II UCA's
Autometer Gauges
LED Headlights
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StarionGTO
Wheeler
Reged: 02/26/04
Posts: 140
Loc: Boulder Creek, California
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I chalked the detonation up to a flat spot on my TPS. Yes, I did have the knock sensor connected and yes it was working. It takes about a minute for the normal timing maps to come back after it senses detonation.
Starion guys have been running 8.7 pistons for a good while now and I haven't heard much in the way of detonation complaints. You can run 8.7 on pump gas without problems. Personally, I wouldn't do it again without the oil squirters.
Quote:
Jamez: I run cheap gas myself. I don't think the Quest calls for premium. A assume the lower CR offsets.
You are braver than I. Premium isn't required per se, but it is recommended for the Quests.
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whitelespaul
Wheeler
Reged: 04/08/07
Posts: 211
Loc: M'ville, Georgia
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JAMEZ, I have just about all of the parts you need for the turbo conversion including ported intake and exhaust manifolds, bigger TBI with new trilogy turbo injectors, distributor, wiring harness with upgrade for 1G AFM, etc. PM me if you're interested.
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83 mitsu flat bed 2.6l weber, 88 auto tranny, 2" body lift, 4.625 LSD, 235/85-16E mudders (33 x 9.50).
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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Quote:
I chalked the detonation up to a flat spot on my TPS. Yes, I did have the knock sensor connected and yes it was working. It takes about a minute for the normal timing maps to come back after it senses detonation.
Starion guys have been running 8.7 pistons for a good while now and I haven't heard much in the way of detonation complaints. You can run 8.7 on pump gas without problems. Personally, I wouldn't do it again without the oil squirters.
Quote:
Jamez: I run cheap gas myself. I don't think the Quest calls for premium. A assume the lower CR offsets.
You are braver than I. Premium isn't required per se, but it is recommended for the Quests.
Then again most of the Starion guy disconnect everything they can think of including the spark box and detonation sensor and wonder why they have a pile of melted parts. 
I built my first 8.7 motor about 16 years ago. I eventualy setteled on 7.8 to 1 as a good compromise. The fuel I had in Cali would still drop the timing/ boost back at part throttle.
The gas in the Portland area is a lot better.
Kevin
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87 Raider, 2.6 Turbo-Intercooled, lockup auto tranny, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, 2.85 T case, LSD front diff, Torsen rear diff, V6 brakes and front axles, Dual suspension seats = lots of fun.
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I ran 8.7 to 1 CR pistons with a stock Starion turbo system and got that same light part throttle detonation. I found that the primary spring on the advance weights on the Starion distributor was super light allowing a lot of mechanical advance at a low RPM range.
By swapping in the springs from the carb motors distributor I was able to slow the advance curve so that I did not get the part throttle detonation.
Kevin
You crack me up. Damn I wish we were in the same area. Then I could bring over beers and hang out in your garage...
(Don't anyone be reading into that. We're both married. )
Jamez: I run cheap gas myself. I don't think the Quest calls for premium. A assume the lower CR offsets.
Welcome over any time.... Best part is the grill is next to the garage. Nothing like burgers and beer.
Kevin
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87 Raider, 2.6 Turbo-Intercooled, lockup auto tranny, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, 2.85 T case, LSD front diff, Torsen rear diff, V6 brakes and front axles, Dual suspension seats = lots of fun.
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Jamez
Rock Warrior
Reged: 07/10/04
Posts: 504
Loc: Tulsa, Ok
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What would be a ballpark price on the parts needed? I have seen prices all over the place for whole (or near whole) cars as well as parts on starion boards. I figure if a parts car can go for well under a grand, a small pile of parts should be what, few hundredish?
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'87 Raider w/rebuilt 2.6
Weber 32/36
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Quote:
1988 MITSUBISHI STARION D-VILLE - $1000 (Douglasville)
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Reply to: see below
Date: 2009-03-12, 9:41AM EDT
I have a Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R that im selling it runs with a few problems. Note I didnt say minor problems, first off it needs a top end rebuild the 4th clyinders exaust valves are frozen. And the head gasket is blown. I bought the car back in september under the basis that it had this done but "it just needs a clutch and a battery" so i couldnt chk how accurate this was. However hard i may have been screwed isnt your problem. I just want a car that i can get running so i can go places. Im about 3k deep into this heep of *****. excuse my language, but after i got it running i found out it didnt have any work done to the top end. but im taking 1k obo for the car if you want pics i have them on myspace so hit me up ill send you a link. This would be a great parts car. with a fresh rebuilt turbo and other good parts in the car like mint interior except front seats and other misc parts are in superior shape compared to what ive seen.
i could make it to where you could drive the car home if you live close but i wouldnt try.
or call me at 678-571-1021 to see the half black have primer car that hauls ass eventho its broke.
For example. Perfect for what you need. Take out your parts, and part out the rest to the starquest guys for probably a grand plus change, and you'd probably come out with a motor you need to rebuild, and all the conversion parts, for free. In about 1990 I paid $300 for an 85 in about the same shape. I parted it out for $1200 and made $100 on the scrap iron.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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rxinhed
The Mitsubishi Parts Guy
Reged: 02/21/05
Posts: 4056
Loc: Placerville, CA
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I just posted an ad for an 83 Starion FSM if anyone is looking...
Russell
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Yard full of Mitsus and things
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Quote:
You can use the stock converter for a down pipe or get a custom made one. I had been running an old Starion converter that had long ago lost its guts.
I found a source for a 16 gauge 304 ss mandrel bend for $30 with a 80º angle that fits pretty well. I also bought a couple of 1/2" thick flanges from Roadrace engineering and a SS flex pipe on E bay for $20. I used the factory turbo flange but ported it.
Parts source
By using the factory turbo flange i can run the pulse air system (SAS) for emmisions and it mounts the o2 sensor. I used 308 filler wire and a tri mix gas on my mig for the SS welds. Getting good looking welds was a challenge. Stainless does not weld as easily as mild steel.
The starion converter will get you on the road but the custom down pipe gets you a faster spoolup and more hp. It also saves 4 lbs and the access to the flange bolts is a lot better than with the starion part.
I turned the flanges in the lath to make a thinner section to weld to. I machined the other sides of the flanges in a lathe and they are flat enough that I dont need a gasket to get a good seal.
Image of the stock housing after porting.
The pipe bend is an 80º angle. Roadrace says its a 72º angle but dont believe them. Either way it fits better than
a 90º bend.
Kevin C
Hello all, Im doing my Turbo swap and im down to the wiring.
Problem is I cannot see the Pictures KevinC posted here or above this post can you?
Im down to the wire harnness and worked on it all weekend with no luck with getting spark, I put in the upgraded spark box from the 88 tested power, I think im good with the stearing colum graft but Not sure Anyone have the Pictures of the finished Set up and grounding points?
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/04/10 11:36 AM)
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Received a PM from 87monty and thought I'd add to here...
Quote:
Hey there MontyMcV, You have helped me in the passed on a few questions about my turbo motor swap. I have the motor in and all plumbed up. I ran the wire harness as Discribed in the Turbo bible but still no spark! I have the upgraded sparkbox from an 88, Tapped into the stock monty harness.
There were pictures in the turbo bible section from kevinC
showing there connection points and stuff but I cannont see the picuters just red X's. So anyway Not sure at this point
I pulled the motor from a running starion so I dont think anything is bad. Any pointers for this new venture?
Thanks for your time.
Been a while since I did mine, and I was a newb then, so no great pearls of wisdom likely to come from me. Some comments/questions:
1. You say you have the newer knock box, but that it is tapped into the stock monty harness. What do you mean by that? You should be using the Quest main engine harness and splicing that into the Monty under the dash.
2. There is a part in the install where a wire needs to be pulled from the ECU to the coil. Either that, you you have to work with the Monty's and get it connected properly. I did the former and had no troubles. There was another guy who was just a few steps behind me in time sequence who had trouble with his and it worked out when he pulled the wire to the coil. Really busy at work right now. Try searching for my user and for 'dadrab' for threads back upwards of five years ago now.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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I hooked up the 88 spark box where the old one was on the starions harness. It was pretty easy to do Color to Color. As for this wire your saying to be pulled from the ecu I have not attempted. I found in the turbo Bible people here where using the stock monty coil wires to get there power Which I did and found 12V when I tune on the key.
I will search for it as you said to do. maybe going to the ecu is my ticket.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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There is a blue/white stripe wire in the starion harness engine side that goes to the coil- for the tach signal to the engine.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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I have some PMs with dadrab mid October 2004. They are following the topic of the wiring when he was not getting spark. Unfortunately, I do not have my sent PMs from the same time.
I did trade a quick "how's it going" email with him a few weeks ago. I'll send him another and see if he can jump online for a some input.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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0778drz110
Rock Warrior
Reged: 08/31/08
Posts: 952
Loc: Sarasota, FL
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Quote:
I have some PMs with dadrab mid October 2004. They are following the topic of the wiring when he was not getting spark. Unfortunately, I do not have my sent PMs from the same time.
I did trade a quick "how's it going" email with him a few weeks ago. I'll send him another and see if he can jump online for a some input.
I sent him a PM on a different forum(he was on today actually)
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1988 Montero SWB 111k: 2.6L 5spd 38.5x15 TSL Boggers on 15x14 wheels, 2" body lift, cut fenders, roof rack, lights, whip
1990 Montero LWB 183k: 3.0 SOHC 4spd auto, Aisin hubs, warped head
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Kevin C
Trail Leader
Reged: 05/20/00
Posts: 5432
Loc: Portland OR, USA
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I need to fire up an old computer to get a hold of my wiring pictures. It's a mini project, they are on a raid array I just need to get teh sytems back up and running again.
It would be great if we could edit this thread to change the location of where the photos were located.
Kevin
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87 Raider, 2.6 Turbo-Intercooled, lockup auto tranny, 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust, 2.85 T case, LSD front diff, Torsen rear diff, V6 brakes and front axles, Dual suspension seats = lots of fun.
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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I emailed Ed as well.
Can't edit the old ones (obviously, I know). If you want to send the pics to me, I'll upload to MitsuLinks and repost yours with new links.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Thanks guys for all your help. I wanna do it right and not rush things at all. Pictures would be great kevin Then I can see whats going on. Ill look for that blue and white wire, its on the injector side of the engine harness? I may have taped it up.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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I have been searching on and off (between meetings and phone calls) ever since I read McV's email this morning. Here's the thread I started explaining the extra wire I pulled that finally gave me spark.
Long and short of it is to pull a wire from the blue wire at B-38 to coil hot (+).
I truly hope it helps you, man.
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87 Montero, bought new, by me -
88/89 intercooled Starion Turbo engine-
with awesome audio.
"When the well's dry, we know the worth of water." - Ben Franklin
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Hmm, how'd I not find that thread...? Anyways, truth be told, there really isn't a project under way. It was all a ruse to get you to come back to the dark side.
87monty, do keep us posted of course. 
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Im going to Find this wire and hope it will end my sleepless nights...
You guys rock, The support here is Awsome!!!
P.S is this Blue wire Like a 2mm with no stripes or smaller?
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/06/10 03:54 PM)
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Well it's Friday, Heading stright to the monty after work to Hopefully get the wiring all done. Ill keep you posted!
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Quote:
Connections to the ECU for a 88-89 Starion.
The third picture con2.jpg has the spark box connector at the bottom center of the picture.
Dist type: It must be a turbo dist. The non turbo units have an igniter built in and are not compatible. the turbo has only a pickup coil and where the igniter goes is empty.
Power to the coil: You need to have 12 volts direct to the coils hot side. I got mine from the original carb motors ignition feed.
There will be two wires for the ignition from the original harness (these stayed even after you removed the original carb engine harness). One of these wires is 12 volts when in the run position. The other is 12 volts when the key is in the cranking position. Connect both of these to the positive terminal on the coil.
The factory turbo spark box will ground the negative terminal on the coil. When a spark is called for it will disconnect this ground and you will get a spark as the magnetic field in the coil collapses.
I am assuming you tested two coils and you don’t have a bad coil or coil wire.
Next on my list is power and ground for the spark box.
The box has a 10 pin connector. Look at the pin side of the connector with the retaining clip facing upwards. On the top row second wire from the left (1.25 mm black wire) is ground. Verify this with an ohmmeter between the pin and the body of the vehicle.
Verify the motor is grounded to the body as well.
The top right wire goes to ground as well (Black with a yellow stripe). This same wire connects to pin 58 on the ECU.
Power to the spark unit comes from the ECI control relay.
This wire is in the bottom row of the connector in the center position (red 1.25 mm). This wire must have power during cranking and when in the run position. This same wire goes to pin 51 on the ecu for ecu power.
Next on the list is the connection to the coil. There are a number of connections to the coil. One is a blue white wire (bottom row second from the left). This connects the negative terminal of the coil.
Also connector to the negative side of the coil is the tach wire that goes into the original wiring harness.
Make sure the fuel injection harness is grounded near the spark box. Look for a large lug with a large and a smaller black wire going to it. Make sure it has a good connection to the body.
Connections!
Connections you need to make the system work:
You will notice a number of large black squares. Those are the ground points (1,2, 5, 8, 9,11).
System power:
You need power connected to four wires.
1: At the ignition switch to the wire labeled 2-BY (black wire with a yellow stripe). This wire needs to get voltage only in the cranking position.
2: The ON wire again at the ignition switch labeled 3-BW (black wire with a white stripe). This wire needs power in the cranking position and when running. I can post the connections to the ignition switch for a 87 Raider a bit later.
3: The next wire is the power to the fuel pump relay the wire is a 1.25 mm black wire to the battery (connector A34)
4: The last wire is the ECU’s constant power wire. It is also connected through connector A34 (3-W, white wire). This guy needs a small fuse and constant power from the battery. This keeps the memory working when you shut the car off the ECU remembers what tuning it learned when driving around.
That is all the EFI power the system needs to work.
You still need power to the + side of the ignition coil.
You can power the ignition coil from either the Starion harness or the Montero’s original harness. I like using the power wire from the Montero harness.
Remember you need to see +12v at the positive side of the coil during cranking and running.
The negative side should be held low and go high to produce a spark.
Kevin
My starion B-38 Harness Does not have the Black with white wire stated above on line#2. I have the starion B-38 Black and yellow wires tapped into the monty truck harness (Power in the start pos) Blue wire Connected to switched 12V+
1.25 black wire to constent 12v+. I have 12V power to the coil in cranking and in run pos. Also I ran a wire from the Blue wire on the B-38 connector to the coils + side and still no spark.
One more thing my B-38 connector only has 10 wires and in the discription above shows 14! My harness is from a 87 starion.
Im sitting here not knowing what to do please help!!!!!
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Ok, we are down to two or three possibilities. Spark box or dizzy or coil. There is no igniter in the dizzy, just a reluctor, which is an alternating current generator. The spark box see's the a/c voltage go from + to - (or vice versa) and triggers a spark by disconnecting the coil path to ground. Using an a/c voltmeter connected to the dizzy harness connector, crank the motor and see if you see voltage on the meter, going from + to -. If not, pull the dizzy and take it apart and clean all the connectors. Check the fine wire coil around the shaft with an ohmeter per the fsm for continuity. If you take out the two screws the D shaped piece will come out so you can get at those connections.
Test the coil. Using a jumper wire from battery to coil +, and another jumper from coil- to ground, holding the coil wire about 1/4" from a good ground, make and break the jumper connection from coil- to ground. The coil wire should make a hot spark. If not, the coil is bad.
There is not a good test for the spark box. Swap with a known good one to test. The only test I know is to put a voltmeter or test light on the wire from spark box to coil -, unconnected from the coil. Crank the motor, and you should see the voltage drop as the spark box breaks the coil path to ground.
Do these tests and report back.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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So I tested the Coil and got a huge fat spark as you said to do, Took the Dizzy apart and tested the windings for Electrical Continuity And did on both connections.
As for the Spark box I just upgraded it to the 88. Before I pulled the motor out of the starion it ran on the 87 Spark box. But from what I here the 88 is way better so thats whats in it. I did test that power was going to it but thats it so far. The Dizzy was dirty inside but not to bad.
Oh I did notice some redish dust in the cap and rotor.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/10/10 07:32 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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IIRC, there are two wires in the dizzy harness. When you tested continuity, did you test from wire to wire? and with a test light or ohmeter?
I think you have to change some wires to use the 88 spark box in an 87. Check on the starquest boards for the change. or use the 87 spark box and save the upgrade until you learn how.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Are you just pluggin in the 88-89 box? There definitely is something to be done to use it with an 87 harness. Can't remember what I did. Got the info off of SQC and did it with no muss.
Like Eddy said, use the 87 knockbox for now if you still can and get it running.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Well you cant just plug it in its a totaly diffrent plug and all I did was follow the the steps in this link.
http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38951
I still have the old one if I need to use that.
It was pretty easy All the wires match up and there is two you dont use.
For the dizzy I used the "BEEP" Test When you connect the + on one side then the - on the other it will beep if the circut/wire is not broken
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/10/10 08:55 PM)
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Here is a pic of how I tested it. kinda rough but its was a quicky. Tested left side with + and - for Continuity, Then the right side.
Edited by 87monty (01/11/10 02:33 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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OK, now test the center two for continuity. Do you have an ohmeter in addition to a continuity tester?
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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My tester has both continuity and Ohms. I checked with the continuity first but didnt get the beep. What ohms reading shoud I have? This is what I got on the Ohms test 1.083
I could not find the it in the fsm so not sure what the range is.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/11/10 04:48 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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The ohms reading on what range? My 87 fsm says 920-1120ohms. If you are on the 1kohm scale, you are about right. What are the ohms on the two outer terminals in your pic?
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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The inside one's are 1.083 Ohms and the outter are 1.084 Ohms So thats good right? And its set on K Ohms
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/11/10 05:58 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Are you dead sure the dizzy is turning when you crank it? If so, I'd swap the 87 spark box back in.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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The rotor is spinning I had the cap off when I was bump starting it. Well now that takes me back to the ign wiring I took a picture of whats coming out. I do not have the White wire in the Starion/Monty grafting point As discribed
On the forum Mine is Solid black.
I did test the wires and hooked them up from the readings I got. If my wires seem to be right then maybe it is the Spark box (still have the old one). I have another dizzy coming and I can test by spinning it out of the motor.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/11/10 07:16 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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The thought occurs to me that I set up the bible instructions for the wiring graft based on an 88-89 starion harness. I never looked at an 87 harness for differences. I'll do a little research and get back to you.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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87 starquest wiring at the B38 connector:
14 pole connector in two rows of 7, catch up, numbered l-r
1. Y yellow
2. BY black yellow stripe - ground
3. B black - battery +
4. L blue - Ign on 12v+
5. not used
6. RB red black stripe - battery + add 15a inline fuse
7. not used
8. LgB light green black stripe - wire to speedo reed switch
9. YG yellow green stripe - not used (fake boost pressure)
10. not used
11. BY black yellow stripe - ground
12. BR black red stripe - add jumper wire to read trouble codes.
13. not used
14. not used
EDIT: ALL THE ABOVE IS WRONG. SEE BELOW.
The spark box has a couple of connections thru the b38, but they are covered in the above, using the 87 spark box.
One test you have not reported on. On the dizzy harness connector, there are 3 wires, white, black, and black/yellow. With a voltmeter set on the lowest range you have, connect the leads to the white and black, and spin the dizzy by hand. You should see (using dc volts) a small value varying above and below zero, which is the a/c voltage the dizzy generates as it turns.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Edited by fasteddy (01/12/10 09:26 PM)
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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This is were it all goes gray, My plug only has 10 wires.
The wires you discribe are in the plug, but I do not have the 14 wire plug. Here is the connector on both sides.
I did notice there is only one black with red in my connector as well.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/12/10 03:45 PM)
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Are you sure you have an 87 donor, and not an 86? shat is the part number on the ecu?
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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It said 87 on the door cant remember the month.
Thats why I wanted the car because it was the same year as my montero.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Quote:
The ecu harness side of the 87 b38 connector (10 slot, 5x5) connections are as follows, catch up, 1-5 top row, 6-10 bottom row: (the number, like 2 or 1.25, in front of the letter color code are the xsect area of the conductor, the bigger the fatter)
1> empty and not used
2> 2BY (fat black yellow stripe #2) ground this terminal for m/t and wire to NSS in a/t
3> 1.25B (med fat black) constant 12v+ from battery
4> 2L (fat blue) wire to 12v+ ign. on
5> epmty and not used
6> LgB (Light Green with black stripe avg size) nice but not necessary - can hook to reed switch in speedo or 4wd light controller end of same wire
7> YG (yellow green stripe) not used in transplant-fake boost gauge wire
8> empty and not used
9> 2BY (fat black yellow stripe #1) wire to 12v+ ign start position
10> BR (avg black with red stripe) ecu codes output wire - extend to within easy inside the cab reach and read with a circuit tester light for codes 1 to 6.
From this Post it sounds like my 87 Plug
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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I wonder where I got that?
OK, now I know. The wiring diagram in the 87 electrical manual is different than the diagram in the fuel system section. The fuel system section matches the one in your last post, and on checking, is correct. The ignition system diagram in the electrical book also has a 14pole connector shown for the b38, but the only wires in question are the 1.25B battery hot wire and the blue ign on wire, which are covered in the 10pole post.
Wire like the 10pole as shown. I'll edit my erroneous post above.
Good catch.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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I thought I was going Crazy! Ok so now were on the same page, Question can I still wire the #2 and #9 together for Ign start power? Or do I need the nns hooked to #2?
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Remember that 87 Quest FSM has the 88 diagram in it.
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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Quote:
I thought I was going Crazy! Ok so now were on the same page, Question can I still wire the #2 and #9 together for Ign start power? Or do I need the nns hooked to #2?
NO! ground 2. 9 goes to ign st 12v+.
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Ok will do just thought id ask. I saw it posted that they were running them together. Iv went over this topic 15 times! I know I ask alot of Questions but I cant afford to burn anything up!
Thanks for clearing this up for me.
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/12/10 11:21 PM)
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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Also check to make sure your ECU is an 87.
I posted a chart somewhere (years ago) that outlined the iterations of StarQuest ECUs through the years. There were quite a few and most of the changes were unremarkable except for the 86. It's a bastard and doesn't play well with any other model years in any combination.
I'm sorry I left you hanging with a couple of question before, but I used the 88-89 Starion harness on my swap and by the time I'd pulled my wiring out to look at that wire from B-38, it had already been assessed that you're using the 87 harness and the plug is different.
As to ignition wiring, I recall nothing. Fact is, Eddy and I changed up at least one wire in there while we were trying to run down my gremlin and I don't have any recollection of what that was.
The truth of the matter is that I'm too damn lazy to take the steering column back apart to look. (head hung in shame) 
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87 Montero, bought new, by me -
88/89 intercooled Starion Turbo engine-
with awesome audio.
"When the well's dry, we know the worth of water." - Ben Franklin
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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It ok Bud, I think im narrowing it down. And by the post you have had in the past was a long time ago. If you dont do it every day you just plan forget. The ECU is an 87, I found this link on the Dizzy that could help people in the Future.
I hope this weekend it will start!!!
http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=1131
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
Edited by 87monty (01/15/10 05:22 PM)
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Got it running this weekend! Purrs Like a kitten..
The reason I didn't have spark was the Fuel Injector Resistor Box was not hooked up!!! I had it from the car but did not know what it was for. Wow what a long road.
I love tapping the gas and hearing the turbo spool up!!!
Thanks for all your help guys
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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MontyMcV
Trail Leader
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 6521
Loc: Cleve-burg OH USA
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Hot diggity!!!!!!!
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Big Truck: 95, 3.0L 24V, MT, SR Rear, New heads! Needs rings!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6L Turbo I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top, Other Stuff
Her Truck: 98, 3.5L SOHC, AT, Butt Warmers, Very Cushy
FSMs at MitsubishiLinks.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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wheeEEEEEEEEEEE
Now upgrade the brakes. You will need them...
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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dadrab
Body Damage is Cool
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 2157
Loc: Augusta, Ga.
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Huge congrats.
Beware, however of "Buzzicus Returniem." That's when the buzz you got when it first fired comes back at random times while driving - usually under heavy acceleration.
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87 Montero, bought new, by me -
88/89 intercooled Starion Turbo engine-
with awesome audio.
"When the well's dry, we know the worth of water." - Ben Franklin
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87monty
Mudrunner
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 275
Loc: Visalia CA, Central Valley
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Holly Crap this thing is fun!!! Its the best when im at a stop light and rip off the line. At the next light I see people looking from front to back saying "What is that" A mini Rover with a V8!!! NO its a Turbo Montero Baby!!
Thank you for all your support I could have not did this with out you all,
Cheers all around
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1987 Montero= GPS,4speed auto,Starion turbo2.6 with JDM 16G turbo, Maxxis 32/11.50.15 MT'S, Custom roof rack with lights,Super winch hubs,LSD in rear, Air shocks,Custom 2.5 Pipe from Turbo Back. TheStarQuestClub.com
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fasteddy
Web Wheeler
Reged: 01/30/01
Posts: 10141
Loc: Flat Creek, GA
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tojaso...
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"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive. But it's lightning that does the work." Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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airbats801
Wheeler
Reged: 12/01/06
Posts: 185
Loc: portland, or
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Here is a nice link for wiring up the ecu. The starion gets all its power n what not off the b38 plug. This link shows the 2 different b38 plugs and their pinout. Picture n all.
scroll down to the lower portion ofthe page where it takls about the b38
http://projectzerog.com/wiring-how_to.shtml
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89 cordia turbo, 88 starion, 87 mitsubishi van, , 81 galant g54bt, 78 lancer g54bt
87 swb montero offroad pkg goin g54bt with sr locker 33x12.5 dual bouncy.
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