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Nice progress man! And do I spy jumpseats in the rear as well as a 84 era center console?

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Hey Buddy! Well I don't know where the 84 console came into play but if there is one, that's from the 86 or REDCAR and pretty much all the early 1st gen 5sp units I've seen have the same console.

As part of the package, I have an 87 Auto- center console that everything will fit into. Also those jumpseats you see are correct in the SR. For some strange reason, my friends or wife's family loves to pile (literally) into Lucky so having 7+ seating is nice.

ANYWAYS, BACK TO THE ADVENTURE !!!

So the trans is in, got everything hooked up but of course the V6 rear driveshaft will not fit because of the length so for now REDCAR is a FWD only 4x4 but good enough for testing purposes and driving around.


Well, I got prepared before hand and bought 4 gal of standard PepBoys Dex-3 trans fluid. remember that this was a tranny sitting in a yard, and that I dropped the pan, put a new filter kit on it, new TQ, etc so I'm gonna be using alot of fluid.

I actually filled the TQ up before I put it on, but it still took almost 3 gal to bring up the dipstick. Time to START THE ENGINE!!!

Crank it over and REDCAR starts right up, no issues, no weird noises... LOOKING good so far!

Well, why not put it in REVERSE? -- nothing.

Engine off, check the dipstick and it's dry so I add more and then start it... put it in REVERSE. and NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE!!!

The TQ is starting to slip and grab, slip and grab, etc,etc.. Let the motor run to warm up, and add more fluid and now the tranny engages in all gears.

Pull out of the driveway (nervous), and put it in DRIVE - NOTHING.. ohhh crap!! rev it abit and then it engages yanks REDCAR forward!!

Off we go up the street!! 1st gear, 2nd gear.. seem cool.. Then pull onto the major street, give it some GAS!! GET SOME BOOST and spin the front tires!!

get up to 30mph or so real quick and as soon as i hit 3rd gear or D the WHOLE ENTIRE TRANNY STARTS TO SHAKE AND VIBRATE!!! not to mention howl kinda.

I'm like WTF is going on here?? slow down and downshift.. 1st is fine... plenty of power and can light up the front tires.. 2nd gear pulls nice and hard.. 3rd GEAR is TOAST.. Feels like it's going to rip off the rubber mount off the crossmember!!! HOLLY$HIT!!!

So go back home, check the fluid, etc.. all look fine. The only thing I can think of is a bad thrust bearing or something for that gear??? Who knows.. Maybe the person drove with the OD off and no to little or bad fluid on that unit.

ANYWAYS.. so tired, depressed and thinking what to do next, I call my buddies at the mitsu yard and they say..

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"No problem Bro!! just bring it back down and I'll give you another one!! I have another low millage unit right here!"

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Yeah.. "No problem Bro".. I gotta take this crap out again... usually by myself since I'm at home and no one is around during the day and I want to get this done.

So, again as in record time almost (3hrs), I disconnect and pull out this Auto trans on my own, by myself!!! But I can't lift it into the back of Lucky on my own so I have to wait for my buddy to come over who lives near by.

The next day, go down in the morn, and swap out trans units. The "NEW" unit looks pretty fresh, clean and 'according' to records, only had 138k on it. We lifted back in and I'm heading home. I'm was fortunate that my neighbor was home at the time for lunch that he helped me lift it out onto the floor jack.

OK -- ROUND 2 OF THE NIGHTMARE !!! READY ???

Get the 4cyl bellhousing bolted on and the trans ready to go. Around 6pm my dad actually stopped by so he helped me for about 45min get it up in there and a few of the cross member bolts on.

The next day, wake up, get the TQ, bellhousing/starter and everything hooked up...close to noon. Take a break, eat lunch and contemplate if there's anything I've missed.

At this point after checking, start to fill her up with fluid (again, at $11 a gal ) and get it all filled..

START UP REDCAR.. all sounds good! Now at this point I have it in 4wd-HIGH. Put it in REVERSE and pull out slow. All seems fine, put it in DRIVE and start to take off. Give it a bit of power and 1st, 2nd & 3rd seem fine !!!

WOOOOOPEEEEE !!!

Drive around for about 4 or 5 miles to test it out and see how it is... don't like the take off power since i'm used to the clutch and instant "LAUNCHES" but it seems nice.

So pull on my street and decide to try 4WD-LOW.. BIG MISTAKE !!!!

The LOW RANGE on the transfer-case howls and grinds like something I've never heard before.

So.. Now I have a 2nd setup that does not work. Pull into the driveway, now really depressed and confused about what I'm going to do, I call my buddies at the yard and they say the same thing....

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No problem Bro, bring it back, BLAH BLAH BLAH

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I want to see pics of the jumps seats. When I look at my SWB, I can't see how to make them fit.

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Those jump seats are in my SR and designed to fit in there.

REDCAR has a special platform that I designed and built in the back of it and the rear seating is out. It's strictly a 2 seater "love machine" !!!

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Well, I got prepared before hand and bought 4 gal of standard PepBoys Dex-3 trans fluid.

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Is that the t-case from your 4-cyl MT you mated up, or from a 4-cyl AT?

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Spence,

It's funny you mention them because I know them VERY well. I grew up in Sun Valley and if you look at my pic with the new rebuilt blue TQ, they did it for me

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LOL, what are the odds, of all the tranny shops in the whole country we use the same one. I think they are the best, especially for these Mitsubishi trannies.

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Pretty much if I was going to have any Automatic or high performance stuff done there, I'd take it to him. But what's funny is that when I asked him about my KM145 issues, he really did not know about the 5th gear problems.

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Yeah I had to fill Brad in on this issue, but the reality is, the cause of this problem is due to overtightening. Brad never has this issue because he knows how to rebuild a tranny the right way the first time without overtightening it. But he said it make sense that the 5th gear and reverse are seizing together.

Hey if you ever plan on upgrading your rear driveshaft, I have a brand new custom slip yoke with a 1310 connection which will add alot of strength over stock U-joint. It's in the classifieds section , but I will cut you a better deal. I think it would be a great upgrade with all that power you're pushin' and you would not have any issues with leaking oil out the rear seal.

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Yeah I had to fill Brad in on this issue, but the reality is, the cause of this problem is due to over tightening. Brad never has this issue because he knows how to rebuild a tranny the right way the first time without over tightening it. But he said it make sense that the 5th gear and reverse are seizing together.

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1: On the first unit that went on Jason the main shaft nut was torqued correctly. I should know, I'm the one who put the first unit unit together. Jason got that tranny when he bought my wrecked Raider ten years ago. He did the next handful of rebuilds.

2: On the units I have looked at the failure mode was not what you described ( over tightening). The bedding in of the parts is caused when the main-shaft flexes in torsion. The parts held in compression by the main shaft nut are a lot more rigid. This causes the parts to move ever so slightly in relationship to each other. Over time this can cause fretting damage to the surfaces.

Most people dont realize how much the output shaft flexes in torsion. This is true on all transmissions. Take the engines peak torque rating and multiply that times the first gear ratio and you get about 750 ft lave of TQ that gets output through a 1" shaft.

When it gets really bad one of a few things can happen. The main shaft retainer comes loose. This was an issue on the early units and is why the factory upgraded to a large bolt.

So unless both the factory and myself missed when we torqued the main shaft nut down, over tightening does not seem to be the root cause.

3: The failures on the OD were fractures at the root of the gear tooth, not the OD gear seizing on the main shaft.

4: I have seen the main shaft seizing problem in some of the units I have gone through. Low oil and or the wrong weight oil and or dirty oil all seem to be factors. The OD gear is hung on the back of the tranny and does not seem to get as well oiled.

5: The OD gear is a two piece unit. The factory makes the dog clutch in a separate operation and welds that to the gear hub. If you combine the thinner section of the gear with a two pieces design you may have a problem.

6: Jason is running tall tires and a turbo 2.6 that puts out a lot of torque. Easily 260 ft lbs. On the stick motors Mitsubishi reduced the boost at low RPM to increase transmission life. The combination of 260 ft lbs and a vehicle that can use that can easily use everything that motor delivers in OD on a long hill put this combination as one of the most highly loaded version of this tranny I know of. Passenger cars are hard pressed to be able to hold the motor at or near peak torque in OD for any length of time.

7: I'm sure people over tighten the parts and can cause problems, however the units have problems even when tightened correctly. In my experience Loctite helps. I also built a better thrust plate lead spreader. for the main shaft. Along that line Jason is running the first strengthening pan ever built. Its not that the mits case flexes more than other units, all trannies have this problem. I realized that anything that reduces case flex increase gear life. Unfortunately it wont help the OD problem. At the time all I cared about was the first few gears, OD was not an issue. The bonus of my design was that i cut fins in the bottom and made it deeper to hold more lube. I dont know if Jason still has it or not.

It might be that a new single piece fifth gear would eliminate this problem. The other solution is to reduce the OD ratio. The would increase the thickness of the material under the gear teeth and reduce the stress level on the gear.



Kevin

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The are still inherently weak because the gear is pretty thin. So do you think they would be better off with a .79 5th gear ratio like the FM145 found in the Ford Ranger instead of the .856 found on the KM145?

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Those are some great pics of the carnage. As sick as it maybe, I love to see pics of failed parts unless they are from my truck. then it just sucks.

So what'd really unfortunate is Advance Adapters used to make an adapter that would let you bolt T4 or T5 World Class Tremec that could handle 330 ftlbs of torque which would have mated to the 4g54 motor through the 2.3 diesel bellhousing. The T5 was the tranny they used behind the Cobra Mustangs. It really sucks because it would have been a sweet and reliable setup. Now my only chances of getting setting up a T5 is finding someone willing to part with the adapter or convincing AA to make more. Niether of which I think will happen. For now the only options are the TK5 and the FM145 which are not even in the same leauge as those T5 trannies.

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Those are some great pics of the carnage. As sick as it maybe, I love to see pics of failed parts unless they are from my truck. then it just sucks.

So what'd really unfortunate is Advance Adapters used to make an adapter that would let you bolt T4 or T5 World Class Tremec that could handle 330 ftlbs of torque which would have mated to the 4g54 motor through the 2.3 diesel bellhousing. The T5 was the tranny they used behind the Cobra Mustangs. It really sucks because it would have been a sweet and reliable setup. Now my only chances of getting setting up a T5 is finding someone willing to part with the adapter or convincing AA to make more. Niether of which I think will happen. For now the only options are the TK5 and the FM145 which are not even in the same leauge as those T5 trannies.

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Is there any special year/vehicle that TK5s are better?

Did you check these guys for a T5 adapter?

http://www.5speeds.com/

or these guys?

http://www.jamesduff.com/

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Does anybody know what the highpoint or what the temp the factory light comes on at?

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Does anybody know what the highpoint or what the temp the factory light comes on at?

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IIRC, 300ish degrees... If you're putting in an A/T temp gauge, be prepared to pucker on long steady climbs uphill. I regularly see 250 plus. And that's with an additional auxiliary cooler that has an 8" fan on the front of it...

Not to say that the temps hurt the trans, though. Mine is still fine after over 200k.

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OMG!!! 300*?? I don't think my gauge goes up that high!!

EDIT: Well here's a pic - So now I know that if I'm pegged, the light is probably on and I should probably do something



I think I'm gonna need some aux cooling!!

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Does anybody know what the highpoint or what the temp the factory light comes on at?

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IIRC, 300ish degrees... If you're putting in an A/T temp gauge, be prepared to pucker on long steady climbs uphill. I regularly see 250 plus. And that's with an additional auxiliary cooler that has an 8" fan on the front of it...

Not to say that the temps hurt the trans, though. Mine is still fine after over 200k.

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OMG!!! 300*?? I don't think my gauge goes up that high!!

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Those are some great pics of the carnage. As sick as it maybe, I love to see pics of failed parts unless they are from my truck. then it just sucks.

So what'd really unfortunate is Advance Adapters used to make an adapter that would let you bolt T4 or T5 World Class Tremec that could handle 330 ftlbs of torque which would have mated to the 4g54 motor through the 2.3 diesel bellhousing. The T5 was the tranny they used behind the Cobra Mustangs. It really sucks because it would have been a sweet and reliable setup. Now my only chances of getting setting up a T5 is finding someone willing to part with the adapter or convincing AA to make more. Niether of which I think will happen. For now the only options are the TK5 and the FM145 which are not even in the same leauge as those T5 trannies.

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Is there any special year/vehicle that TK5s are better?

Did you check these guys for a T5 adapter?

http://www.5speeds.com/

or these guys?

http://www.jamesduff.com/

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No, I just checked with AA because I know they used to make the adapter. But 5speed and JD may have something as well.

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The OE thermostat temp is 195*.

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Why Atf Wears Out
An automatic transmission creates a lot of internal heat through friction: the friction of the fluid churning inside the torque converter, friction created when the clutch plates engage, and the normal friction created by gears and bearings carrying their loads.

It doesn't take long for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to heat up once the vehicle is in motion. Normal driving will raise fluid temperatures to 175 degrees F., which is the usual temperature range at which most fluids are designed to operate. If fluid temperatures can be held to 175 degrees F., ATF will last almost indefinitely -- say up to 100,000 miles. But if the fluid temperature goes much higher, the life of the fluid begins to plummet. The problem is even normal driving can push fluid temperatures well beyond safe limits. And once that happens, the trouble begins.

At elevated operating temperatures, ATF oxidizes, turns brown and takes on a smell like burnt toast. As heat destroys the fluid's lubricating qualities and friction characteristics, varnish begins to form on internal parts (such as the valve body) which interferes with the operation of the transmission. If the temperature gets above 250 degrees F., rubber seals begin to harden, which leads to leaks and pressure losses. At higher temperatures the transmission begins to slip, which only aggravates overheating even more. Eventually the clutches burn out and the transmission calls it quits. The only way to repair the damage now is with an overhaul -- a job which can easily run upwards of $1500 on a late model front-wheel drive car or minivan.

As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half!

At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up.

If you think this is propaganda put forth by the suppliers of ATF to sell more fluid, think again. According to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association, 90% of ALL transmission failures are caused by overheating. And most of these can be blamed on worn out fluid that should have been replaced.

On most vehicles, the automatic transmission fluid is cooled by a small heat exchanger inside the bottom or end tank of the radiator. Hot ATF from the transmission circulates through a short loop of pipe and is thus "cooled." Cooling is a relative term here, however, because the radiator itself may be running at anywhere from 180 to 220 degrees F.!

Tests have shown that the typical original equipment oil cooler is marginal at best. ATF that enters the radiator cooler at 300 degrees F. leaves at 240 to 270 degrees F., which is only a 10 to 20% drop in temperature, and is nowhere good enough for extended fluid life.

Any number of things can push ATF temperatures beyond the system's ability to maintain safe limits: towing a trailer, mountain driving, driving at sustained high speeds during hot weather, stop-and-go driving in city traffic, "rocking" an automatic transmission from drive to reverse to free a tire from mud or snow, etc. Problems in the cooling system itself such as a low coolant level, a defective cooling fan, fan clutch, thermostat or water pump, an obstructed radiator, etc., will also diminish ATF cooling efficiency. In some cases, transmission overheating can even lead to engine coolant overheating! That's why there's a good demand for auxiliary add-on transmission coolers.

Auxiliary Cooling
An auxiliary transmission fluid cooler is easy to install and can substantially lower fluid operating temperatures. The plate/fin type cooler is somewhat more efficient than the tube and fin design, but either can lower fluid temperatures anywhere from 80 to 140 degrees when installed in series with the stock unit. Typical cooling efficiencies run in the 35 to 50% range.

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I also wonder if the gen II Radiator provides a lot more cooling? If so, it might explain the problems with overheating .

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I've been up the grapevine precisely once...

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Can you please be more exact FE?
Sorry, nothing really relevant to add other than that.

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1. On the HWY, it takes 0-3 psi to maintain around 70mph in OD. On the 5spd, I was always in VAC area but never in boost. Kevin verified this as well as his does this same.

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Can you please be more exact FE?

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unless that only affects low range?

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unless that only affects low range?

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Yep, only low range. No effect in 2WD... IIRC, Frank's running either 31's or 32's.

Is there any possibility you have something dragging? Like brakes or bearings...

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nothing is dragging... but like Frank said, he's got way smaller tires, and a much lighter vehicle.

33x12.5x15's are no easy task to spin around. Take almost a 5k lbs vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick wall and a 2.6 just needs to work a little bit harder

I foresee my OD switch getting used ALOT in the future!!

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TV cable/valve has no effect on lockup at all. Only affects tv pressure to the rest of the elements and downshift/upshift points. BEWARE, if you run with the tv cable unhooked, you run a serious risk of frying the tranny due to insufficient clamping pressures. Many of the internal pressures use regulated pressure plus throttle valve pressure for clamping force on the clutches/brakes inside the slushbox.

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???

I was under the impression that if left unhooked, the trans has full pressure.

I know that when I'm on the freeway, the TQ is locked hard, and no slippage at all is going on. I'm thinking this, when the cable is hooked up, you give is more gas, you see the RPM's rise from your cruising RPM a few hundred or so...

That's the converter unlocking. Happens in my SR, my buddy's LS, and most other standard automatics with a lockup. Give abit more gas and it shifts up to the next gear.

I've been driving around with the cable hanging outside the hood and pulling on it manually and it downshifts and unlocks fine.

Again, i thought that left alone, the valves are getting full pressure to the assy. I know that the high-power, full boost (16psi) runs I've been playing with, it shifts smooth and no slipping at all between the gears.

But I know this is something I need to tackle here quickly. This is a PITA because of the location and the firewall

But it will be done this week.

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You gonna open the throttle with telekinesis???

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:o No, I added that to the shaft and it was just long enough for the lock washer and nut to go back on.

But I'm going to fab up another bracket this week that starts to pull at 45* instead

But I have a bathroom to start remodeling so

But I want to wheel!!!